In this episode, NCCAkron's Executive/Artistic Director, Christy Bolingbroke enters the 'studio' with Brooklyn, New York-based interdisciplinary artist and the artistic director of Renegade Performance Group, André M. Zachery. Zachery speaks and writes on many topics including Afrofuturism, African Diaspora practices and philosophies, Black cultural aesthetics, technology in art and performance, and expanding the boundaries of art making within the community.
In this episode, NCCAkron's Executive/Artistic Director, Christy Bolingbroke enters the 'studio' with Brooklyn, New York-based interdisciplinary artist and the artistic director of Renegade Performance Group, André M. Zachery. Zachery is a 2016 New York Foundation for the Arts Gregory Millard Fellow in Choreography and a 2019 Jerome Hill Foundation Fellow in Choreography. As a scholar, he speaks and writes on many topics including Afrofuturism, African Diaspora practices and philosophies, Black cultural aesthetics, technology in art and performance, and expanding the boundaries of art making within the community.
INTRODUCTION: Thanks for joining us Inside The Dancer’s Studio, where we bring listeners like you closer to the creative process. Inside The Dancer’s Studio is a program of the National Center for Choreography at the University of Akron as part of our Ideas in Motion initiative. This episode was recorded in the presence of a live audience in 2023. Today we joined Christy Bolingbroke, our Executive/Artistic Director, in conversation with Brooklyn, NY-based interdisciplinary artist and the artistic director of Renegade Performance Group, André M. Zachery. Zachery is a 2016 New York Foundation for the Arts Gregory Millard Fellow in Choreography and a 2019 Jerome Hill Foundation Fellow in Choreography. As a scholar, he speaks and writes on many topics including Afrofuturism, Black cultural aesthetics, and technology in art and performance.
CHRISTY BOLINGBROKE: How or when did you become a choreographer?
ANDRÉ M ZACHERY: Hmm. I would say I've always had an interest in making. And I would always, I would always be eager to improvise during improvisation classes [Bolingbroke: Okay] when I was, when I when I was getting my BFA in the Ailey/Fordham Program, and so that was always a big part of you know, how I liked to [Bolingbroke: Hmm], to dance really. And then figuring out, Okay, how I could put pieces together of these, kind of what you were just speaking about [Bolingbroke: Mm-huh], these ideas that [Bolingbroke: Hmm] I was kind of investigating. I didn't even you know, understand the word at that time, investigating [Bolingbroke: Right]. It was more like, Okay, cool, like, you know, improvising on this, in this way. And then it was like, Okay, but now I'm going to improvise or, you know, do something over here. And then, you know, I would say, Well, how do I put those things together? [Bolingbroke: Hmm] And, you know, see what they felt like. And yeah, I would, I did, I would say it really started to become more of something. I was like, I think I can maybe go into this for my senior choreographic project [Bolingbroke: Mm-huh]. I did two choreographies actually. I did a solo and then I choreographed the duet on two other students, and back then you only supposed to do one, do one [Bolingbroke: Overachiever]. Yeah, just a little bit, just a little bit. And the duet I had been working on over the summer [Bolingbroke: Mm-huh]. And so I kind of had that like pretty much good and set. And I was like, tweaking it a little bit, but then the solo was something I was just like, Let me really like get into this in a way that I was just like, [Bolingbroke: Mm-huh] Hmm like urr, like I want to pull this apart [Bolingbroke: Mm-huh]. And that, that one, I had some pretty good people that came, came, came around and mentored me. You know I was mentioning earlier like the choreographer Nathan Trice, who I worked with. I was also working with another choreographer, [unclear word] Kwame Ross, late Kwame Ross now, since passed. But they would give me some pretty good feedback on like, what they saw, and you know, what, what they felt that I was kind of like trying to go for [Bolingbroke: Hmm]. And yeah, and so when I came to the, when it came to now submitting for the choreographies, I said, Well, you know, I have two projects, like, is that okay? And they were just like, Well, let's just see one of them. And, and so I showed them, and they were like, Oh, that's actually pretty good. Can we see the other one? And I showed them? They're like, Yeah, okay, great. You can do two on the concert. So [Bolingbroke laughs and says: Nice]. Yeah, that's when I kind of really was just like, Okay, choreography could be something that I really want to, you know, pursue, maybe a little bit sooner than, than later, I would say,
CHRISTY BOLINGBROKE: Mm-huh. There's so many things just in hearing that snapshot of your journey [Zachary: Mm-huh], right, the idea of improvising, of staying ready [Zachary: Mm-huh], of not waiting for the invitation. And then when asked saying like, Well, what about this? I could do, you know, both of these [Zachary: Mm-huh]. But also along the way, the other choreographers and artists that you work with, that you surround yourself with [Zachary: Mm-huh], and creating a sort of community, and, and this idea of agile development [Zachary: Mm-huh] and feedback [Zachary: Yeah]. I'm really curious, you accepted our invitation to come teach as part of 21st Century Dance Practices [Zachary: Yeah]. Thank you [Zachary: Oh, you're welcome]. How would you define 21st century dance practices?
ANDRÉ M ZACHERY: That is, that's such an important question. Because 21st century dance practices is, as much as it is a push forward, it is now a recollecting [Bolingbroke: Mmm]. And, it offers, you know, through various mediums [Bolingbroke: Mm-huh], you know, through our various technologies, and opportunity to actually look back in ways that we possibly hadn't had the means to do before [Bolingbroke: Mm-huh]. And so 21st century dance practices for me, is also a, I mean, it is, as much as it's an artistic, like this artistic stance, it is as much a like a societal statement on, on re-shifting [Bolingbroke: Mm-huh]. You know, our focus on like, what dance, what dances, where like, where, where were like, origins of dance [Bolingbroke: Mm-huh] in ways that are not as, were not as considered, you know [Bolingbroke: Mm-huh]. And, and then I would say, giving us an opportunity to really create a new value system [Bolingbroke: Mmm], on the emphasis that we place on, I would say, especially when it comes to like, race and ethnicity, and, and then cultural, cultural lineage in these, and being specific in these specific and specific forms, and how we can trace them. I, I think it's incredibly important [Bolingbroke: Hmm]. Yeah, 21st century dance practices, for me, I would say, you know, as much as I was, you know, given, you know, formal dance training [Bolingbroke: Mm-huh] as well, which, you know, I was lucky to receive, you know, because I had a family that was very supportive of being in the arts [Bolingbroke: Hmm]. That was just what it meant to be a well-rounded person [Bolingbroke: Hmm]. You know, not just your academics, and you had to also understand the arts with music, dance. But, you know, yeah, I grew up in 90s Hip-Hop culture [Bolingbroke: Mm-huh], you know what I mean? In, in, in Chicago, like, 90s Hip-Hop and House, you know, culture, not necessarily, definitely not in the clubs. I was a, you know, as a kid. But like [Bolingbroke: Yeah], at school, you know, you know, on the street after school with your friends. And, you know, that was it, it wasn't that it was, you know, outside like, looking back, I'm like, Oh, no, that was, that was it [Bolingbroke: Mm-huh]. Like we were, we were the culture [Laughs] [Bolingbroke: Yes] in a very… You know, going into house parties, and things like that, that we were able to go to. And so understanding how that, those sensibilities actually, to me are really important in shaping 21st century dance practice. To me more so than anything, anything I learned in a, like a formal dance class [Bolingbroke: Hmm] respectively. Like, I would rather take the principles I learned, like in the House party or like the gym, you know, the, the weekend gym parties [Bolingbroke: Mm-huh]. And those inform me way more.
CHRISTY BOLINGBROKE: Mmm. Well, and I love the, the notion that this moment is to re-define a system of values [Zachery: Mm-huh] as well, because I also think in your work there is that sense of tradition, of rich African diasporic culture [Zachary: Mm-huh], which a lot of times people make note is like old. But then in the 21st century, it doesn't just mean shiny and new. And now we're going to be doing digital everything [Zachary: Right. Yeah]. But, but rather what's at the nexus of all that we've come before? What do you want to carry forward those sensibilities? What do you want to let go of? [Zachary: Mm-huh] And then how do you keep it relevant in a new context, [Zachary: Right], and in a new time moving forward? [Zachary: Mm-huh] How do you work with technology in your work?
ANDRÉ M ZACHERY: Technology is something I started to work with, I, I would say around 2000, I became interested in it, in 2005-2006, when I began working with a company in Philadelphia called Miro. That was kind of more performance art [Bolingbroke: Hmm]. And experimental performance company that was actually using technology within their work [Bolingbroke: Hmm]. Even, Even then, I was just like, Wow, this is, you know [Bolingbroke: It was like literally Web. 1.0]. Yeah, yeah like, literally [Bolingbroke laughs]. And the directors, Tobin Rothlein and Amanda Miller, they were doing some, asking some pretty interesting questions with technology. So I was like, Okay, this is, this is definitely like, you know, you know, up my alley, and what I kind of really want to look at with work. And I would say, it was when I, a friend asked me, because I, I had a pretty, back then like, the digital cameras, you know, though they were [Bolingbroke: Hmm], some were like pretty good. And I remember I got a deal on one [Bolingbroke: They were not in your phone]. They were not [Bolingbroke: Yeah] in the phone, Yes [Bolingbroke laughs]. This is back then like, even like 2000, yeah when the iPhone dropped. What was it? Like I guess 2009 or something [Bolingbroke: Yeah I think] like that was a big deal [Bolingbroke: I think I had the Canon Digital Elf]. Yeah, yeah [Bolingbroke: Okay]. I had a Sony, I forgot which one it was, it was pretty good. And I was like, Wow, I can do some, like amazing things with this and like, play with like, the FPS. And a friend was doing an audition, and needed a reel. And they, they knew I had a good camera. They were like, like, What do you think we can do? I was like, Well, why don't we just go out on the street, and we can see what we can do. And so I you know, I was just playing with the camera with him. And I was just like, Oh, okay [Bolingbroke: Mm-huh]. And I'm like, this is pretty dope. And then, you know, we took the footage back, and you know, and that was gonna be. And I remember, I just, I had saved up like, a lot of money. And I actually got a Mac for the first time. I was just like, Wow, alright. So I had never used iMovie before. After about two months of having it, and so I was like, Okay, this is gonna be a first time like really editing video. And we pulled in the footage, and I realized I could do so much with that footage [Bolingbroke: Mmm]. Like with filters. I was like, Oh, there's something you can slow it down. And I was like, Yo, what did you want to try this? And, and that's when I realized I was like, Oh, this is pretty amazing. I can, I can extend what I'm doing, you know, in the physical sense [Bolingbroke: Mm-huh], in the dance space. And I can push it even, you know, even a, even further, in a digital way, and so [Bolingbroke: Well, choreographing through the digital way]. Yeah [Bolingbroke: Yeah. Choreography is about playing with time]. Yeah, exactly [Bolingbroke: And, and manipulating these different elements. And so finding another tool instead of just relying on the bodies in front of you]. And, and so with, with that, but also being able to use the bodies that were in the space with me, and or in front of me, and then almost have another way of, of seeing what they would…So meaning that you know, what we can see now of course, mainly with, you know, at the proscenium, it's a very frontal [Bolingbroke: Mm-huh] and forward way of looking. But it was like, Wow, I can actually position the camera maybe, on like this downward angle behind them, and then all of a sudden, it's going to create this entirely new perspective of, of their body moving in relationship to, I mean, you know, living in New York, it was like, Wow, it's like to this architecture that maybe is up there [Bolingbroke: Mm-huh]. And then it's like, Oh, whoa, they're actually trying to relate to something out of, let's say, like, the line of sight [Bolingbroke: Mm-huh]. That’s when I was just like, Okay, this is this is going to be, this is probably going to be like where the field is going [Bolingbroke: Mm-huh]. And so I started to really investigate a lot of choreographers, a lot more choreographers that were doing work. I mean, I look, I even, you know, I was trying to, as much as I could, like, you know, read books, and I knew other choreographers like Bill T. Jones had done work, you know, with, with a lot of technologies such as, you know, I think, what was his piece, I think it was Ghostcatching Bolingbroke: Mm-huh], I believe. And, and I know some others, but I started to like, actually now like, look at it more seriously. And, and figure out like, Hmm what do I want to say? And so then, you know, I was I was a big sci-fi nerd. And I was also, you know, pretty, pretty, yeah, I was, you know, into, you know, comic books, and things like that. And a lot of my crew was. And I had, a lot of my crew were also like writers and musicians, visual artists. And already around that time, so many, so many people were, were delving and kind of re reemerging with Afrofuturist thought, you know [Bolingbroke: Mmm]. Writers such as you know, like Greg Tate. And that was just a part of like the community in New York. And, and then by the time I’d say, like, around like 2012, late 2011, I started to really kind of ask myself, like, Hmm, how do I begin to really place and consider dance in this relationship with Afrofuturism? Because, I mean, really, up until that point, no one had been asking that question [Bolingbroke: Mm-huh], really. I mean, like, music was already like, well beyond, you know, think of people like Alice Coltrane and Sun Ra literature, you know, sure, you know [Bolingbroke: Mm-huh]. People like you know, Octavia Butler and N.K. Jemisin, you know, Samuel Delany, visual art, film. And so it was interesting that I was like, Wait a minute, there's no, there has been no real consideration of like, dance and the body [Bolingbroke: Mm-huh], the form that actually, when they're talking about the Blackness. Like, like, this is it I'm like, Oh. And so I was asking a question, like, Was anybody else doing it? I was like, surely I'm not the only one. And then people like Makeda Thomas, who's the Director of Tren, Dance Institute in Trinidad and Tobago [Bolingbroke: Hmm]. She was doing some work, and I was like, Okay, yeah, I see you Makeda. Makeda was kike, Yep, I see you know, little bro, doing the thing [Bolingbroke: Hmm]. But it wasn't that many others. And then I started, then I met people like Monstah Black and Man child Black, fellow choreographer in New York. And I was like, Oh, whoa, they're doing some like really, like, sick stuff, you know what I'm saying? And so, it slowly started to like, once I started asking those questions, people started revealing themselves and I was like, Okay, there's, there's a [Bolingbroke: Mm-huh] few people here. So yeah.
CHRISTY BOLINGBROKE: Yeah. Well, and, and so much of that, I think, you're so dead on with dance has been a little bit slower to embracing technology [Zachary: Mm-huh], Afrofuturism, in everything [Zachary: Mm-huh] that they do. I think sometimes because of how the field is working on a project basis [Zachary: Mm-huh], it tends to surface with like, this project is going to have the shiny, the new, the bells and whistles [Zachary: Yeah]. Whereas what I hear that you're doing is like, This is, is about longevity. And it's like, how do you pick up these tools and this way of thinking that works with your latest project today, but it's something that you'll continue to work with for 10, 15, 20 years, as long as you want to make dances? [Zachary: Yeah, yeah] The technology aside, we've got a lot of, you know, students that also want to dance [Zachary: Mm-huh]. What do you look for in dancers?
ANDRÉ M ZACHERY: I, honestly I look for, I look for hunger [Bolingbroke: Hunger]. Yeah, I mean that’s [Bolingbroke: Tell us more]. I mean, if there is, like, you know, for those that have been taking class with me, you know, I hope they've seen like, I, I can, sure, I can put some steps together. Hopefully, like, I really try and do it in a way that's intentional, and not just haphazard [Bolingbroke: Mm-huh]. It is like, Okay, wait a minute, I, I know this momentum is going here. And so sometimes I'm saying, Okay, how do I complete that momentum to come into something else? Or is there an intentional way of like taking that centripetal force, and then maybe releasing it through the backspace in a way that might not be expected? [Bolingbroke: Mm-huh] And so sometimes, I deliberate on that a lot. And then I just want to see people do it [Bolingbroke: Mm-huh], right? And it's more about you know, this space really being a lab, you know, when you know, coming up, you know, like Breaking and learning how to footwork, sometimes you would just mess up. And then, and I think that in, in going back to when we were talking about 21st century dance practices, right? So in that space, when you were learning how to Break and you know, and, and footwork and do the thing, there weren't, back then, like you had, of course, you had like people that were like, experienced. But when you were a kid, I mean, no one was a master teacher, like [Bolingbroke: Right], you were just learning it because, and then some, you know definitely some youth were better than the other. They were older than you. They were all [unclear word]. And so you were looking at them, like, Man how did they do that? So then you're trying it, and then you, you don't quite do what they do. But then you do something else, and you let, you figure it out. And they're like, [Bolingbroke: Hmm] Oh, you just figured out something on your own. Oh, that's your style [Bolingbroke: Mm-huh]. Right? And you're like, Oh, right. That's. Okay cool. And then you did like, Oh, okay, so while they were doing like this, you're like [Bolingbroke: Yeah], you know, added something in that respect. And that is part of, to me, that is, that represents to me a healthy continuum [Bolingbroke: Hmm]. And so then in the space is as much as much as I do have to impart and, and, and, bestow, you know, my own experience and knowledge. I love seeing when someone is just like, Oh, they did that. Oh, what was that? That was cool [Bolingbroke: Mm-huh]. Like let's put that in there. And, and then, because then that lets me know, you know, they're trying something or in a way that is not trying to be perfect [Bolingbroke: Mm-huh], either. Because I'm, I’m not really interested in it. I mean, most of you know, you're here in a university, so that means, you know, someone has invested a lot of time and energy and money for you to get good techniques. So that probably means, you know, you can you know, you know, you know what I mean like? [Bolingbroke: Yeah] Meaning the easy part is doing three pirouettes. That's actually the easy part of dance. That's not hard. The hard part of dance is, is taking this, as you're saying, taking this idea or this exploration of working, and then being like, oh, you're doing something wicked with that. Like, I've, I’ve never even considered doing it in that way [Bolingbroke: Hmm]. Okay, now, how can we take that way of doing it, and now pull it forward in a way that's like, like, ah? You know what I mean [Bolingbroke: Yeah]. It's like, I can't help but to take, you know, like that energy you have with it, and now bring it, because you're like, I need that in the room [Bolingbroke: Yeah]. Because now that's gonna push me as a creator.
CHRISTY BOLINGBROKE: Well, and it's bigger than, you know, just having the ideas in your head [Zachary: Mm-huh]. And, and then you’re, you're fitting them on your body [Zachary: Mm-huh], and then fitting them on other people's bodies [Zachary: Hmm], but it makes space for everyone's uniqueness [Zachary: Yeah]. And, and hearing you describe what that is to look for, you know, the dancers and bodies and people that you want in the room [Zachary: Mm-huh], also reminds me of, of what you told us about working on your senior projects [Zachary: Yeah]. And, and in creating that community where there is a sort of feedback mechanism [Zachary: Yeah]. Almost maybe like a cypher too, as a part of the spirit [Zachary: Mm-huh]. And so my last question [Zachary: Mm-huh], as you've been surrounding yourself with people and listening, and you respond both to the dancers you're working with as well as the choreographers you've worked for [Zachary: Mm-huh], what is maybe a favorite or best piece of advice that you've ever been given in navigating a creative career that you might share with us today?
ANDRÉ M ZACHERY: I was actually just speaking about this with my collaborator last night, and we were, we were speaking about knowledge and advice, he had heard from kind of a, kind of a global mentor in Chicago, the writer Haki Madhubuti [Bolingbroke: Hmm]. And Baba Haki was saying, and I might get this incorrect, Ayindé [Jean-Baptiste] might be more specific: You need to have, you need to have courage, you need to have incessant curiosity, and you need to, you do need to have a convic, conviction to some type of principles [Bolingbroke: Hmm] in your life. Yeah, the, it's interesting, because I know especially as careers as dancers, it seems like Oh, man, like this company, or, you know, the, the name of like this space seems like that is the goal to, to get to, and to land and then, and then that's it. And for some people, yeah that is, and then for some others, it's like, Oh, I'm here. And now, actually, maybe I've done you know, you know, 5 or 6 years and now I'm actually ready to ask new questions [Bolingbroke: Mmm]. And then, with that, you know, we, we don't create work within a vacuum [Bolingbroke: Mm-huh]. Usually not just for ourselves [Bolingbroke: Yeah]. And our work does serve, it serves people, in ways that we might never expect. [Bolingbroke: Mm-huh].You know, it does seem corny, but there are people that actually are inspired by you making the choice and the decisions to pursue something that you know, that you love to do, hopefully.And being in the space, you know, moving with others by yourself, it actually it, actually inspires people in ways sometimes you, we may never know. And sometimes the most meaningful projects for us are the ones that we, where we, we've met all of the goals that we've set up for ourself, even if it, that didn't necessarily just say get, you know, uber wide acclaim [Bolingbroke: All the grants or] Yeah [Bolingbroke: Sell all the tickets]. Actually, sometimes like those projects where, even like smaller projects [Bolingbroke: Mm-huh], it's, it’s been, that's been worth it. And then I would say, one of the, one of the most meaningful ways that I, I know, I execute as an artist is sometimes when I'm able to, especially like with my technology skills, or even choreography, if I'm working on a project, if it's in service of someone else [Bolingbroke: Hmm], if I'm not the lead on it, or if I am, like, you know what actually, I want to take my work in support of what you're doing [Bolingbroke: Mm-huh]. I, sometimes I get the most fulfillment with that [Bolingbroke: Yeah], With collaborating and saying, like, Oh, like this idea, you have, like, Could I, I explore it here? And like, Would you like to, you know, invest? Can I do something with that? And like, in support of what you're doing? And sometimes artists is like, Oh, yeah, I didn't even know that, that was something you know, that you want to do, like, with, like, a film or like, some music. Or like, some projections, and I'll do something and they'll be like, Whoa, like, Yeah, can we bring that in, and, and, and then all of a sudden, that turns into, like, a real relationship over time that gives us, that gives us an extension through our artistic partnership. And that's, that then creates longevity [Bolingbroke: Mm-huh], for my own career, right? So that it's not just about, Oh, when’s the next, you know, grant or, you know, gig like, you know, choreography coming from [Bolingbroke: Hmm], but you've created it for yourself, again, through these relationships [Bolingbroke: Mm-huh], with the skills that you have been building over time. So…[Bolingbroke: Yeah] Yeah.
CHRISTY BOLINGBROKE: Well there's, there's so much in that too. I, I wanted to reiterate the idea of courage, incessant curiosity, [Zachary: Mm-huh] and conviction of principles [Zachary: Mm-huh]. And then as you explained how it may show up, it's this, like, ever changing definition of what success or satisfaction may look like [Zachary laughs and says: Mm-huh]. And similar to the body, right, like who, who you were, as a mover at 15 is going to be different, at 25 is going to be different, at 35 [Zachary says: It’s going to be different at 40 and laughs] Welcome to your 40s, yeah and [Zachary: It’s going to be different at 40]. And so we are not fixed entities [Zachary: Noo]. So in navigating this creative career, to be able to stay curious [Zachary: U-huh], and not still seeking, you know, but, but I want this definition of success when you're like, Well, but that, that's the kind of thing that you did in your 15s [Zachary: Yeah] and 20s [Zachary laughs]. And working with that. And so, yes, some of it, it is but how do you find new ways to get there as well? [Zachary: Yeah] And I love that, because that is another thing, dance is in a constant dialogue with the body [Zachary: Yeah], for sure.
ANDRÉ M ZACHERY: Oh, yes. Big facts when you say that, because that, that relationship to embracing as you're saying the, the shifts in our own bodies [Bolingbroke: Mm-huh]. And for me, doing that in myself has completely expanded my empathy for seeing like, Okay, what are other body like, especially those, whether the students, collaborators, whoever is like, in the room with me, or if I'm seeing work on stage, it's just like, Right, you, you, you don't know what the story of someone's body is [Bolingbroke: Yeah], right? And so the incredible vulnerable, you know, position that everyone comes to, to be in the studio, it is to really be, you know, held with respect and honor. And then you, you do your best to, like, make sure that, like you say that it's held with care. You know, yeah, you challenge yourself as, as much as, as possible. I've realized, I'm like, Wow, I can't even you know, 7 years ago, I'm like, Wow, I could do that. I can still do it. But now, it's just a little bit different [Bolingbroke: Mm-huh]. And it's just like, Okay, all right. That's [Bolingbroke: Mm-huh], that's what it is
CHRISTY BOLINGBROKE: It's another sort of feedback mechanism.
ANDRÉ M ZACHERY: Yeah [Both Bolingbroke and Zachary laugh] [Bolingbroke: In dialogue with your own body]. And, and it's a, it's a beautiful space of humility, I'll say that [Bolingbroke: Hmm]. And so, I, I know, as you know, speaking as a non-disabled person [Bolingbroke: Mm-huh], who then is, is looking at what that means to be able to even navigate space in a certain way [Bolingbroke: Mm-huh]. And then what does it mean, as for me to make to make these considerations of like, Hmm, now, what does it mean when disabled persons are in the room, disabled dancers are in the room with me? [Bolingbroke: Mm-huh] How does that then shift? Because then of, over time, body shift [Bolingbroke: Yep], and are, those relationships to ability, you know, are, are now very, you know, have variants. So [Bolingbroke: Yeah] it's a, it's something that I'm grateful I've had. I put myself in positions to learn, and to constantly shift of like, Hmm what I thought was fixated is, is definitely not, so.
CHRISTY BOLINGBROKE: Excellent [Zachary: Yeah]. In position to learn [Zachary: Yeah]. Please join me in thanking André Zachery [Bolingbroke and audience clap].
ANDRÉ M ZACHERY: Thank you Christy.
OUTRODUCTION: Inside The Dancer’s Studio Live Series is supported by NCCAkron, the University of Akron, the University of Akron Foundation and the Mary Schiller Myers Lecture Series in the Arts. Our podcast program is produced by Jennifer Edwards. James Sleeman is our editor. Theme music by Floco Torres, cover art by Micah Kraus. Special thanks to the team on the ground in Akron, Ohio. To learn more about NCCAkron, please visit us online at NCCakron.org. And follow us on Instagram or Facebook at NCCAkron. We hope you enjoyed this episode, and we encourage you to subscribe on your favorite podcast streaming platform by searching for Inside The Dancer’s Studio. Please share with your friends and if you’d like to help get the word out rate us, and leave a review on Apple podcasts. Thanks for listening and stay curious.