In this episode, NCCAkron's Executive/Artistic Director, Christy Bolingbroke enters the 'studio' with Seattle-based choreographer, director and educator Kate Wallich. Named one of Dance Magazine’s “25 to Watch,” her work has been presented nationally and internationally by venues including On the Boards, Seattle Art Museum, Pacific Northwest Ballet, Walker Art Center, MASS MoCa, and The Joyce Theater. In 2010 she founded an all-abilities, community-focused class called Dance Church® which, during the pandemic, gained traction as an online streaming platform and received attention from Wired, Vanity Fair, and The LA Times.
In this episode, NCCAkron's Executive/Artistic Director, Christy Bolingbroke enters the 'studio' with Seattle-based choreographer, director and educator Kate Wallich. Named one of Dance Magazine’s “25 to Watch,” her work has been presented nationally and internationally by venues including On the Boards, Seattle Art Museum, Pacific Northwest Ballet, Walker Art Center, MASS MoCa, and The Joyce Theater. In 2010 she founded an all-abilities, community-focused class called Dance Church® which, during the pandemic, gained traction as an online streaming platform and received attention from Wired, Vanity Fair, and The LA Times.
INTRODUCTION: Thanks for joining us Inside the Dancer’s Studio, where we bring listeners like you closer to the creative process. Inside the Dancer’s Studio is a program of the National Center for Choreography at the University of Akron, as part of our Ideas and Motion initiative. This episode was recorded in the presence of a virtual audience in the winter of 2022. Today we join Christy Bolingbroke, our Executive/Artistic Director, in conversation with Seattle-based choreographer, director and educator Kate Wallich. Named one of Dance Magazine's 25 to watch, her work has been presented nationally and internationally, by venues including On the Boards, Seattle Art Museum, Pacific Northwest Ballet, Walker Art Center, MASS MoCA, and the Joyce Theater. In 2010, she founded an all abilities community-focused class called “Dance Church,” which during the pandemic gained traction as an online streaming platform and received attention from Wired, Vanity Fair, and the LA Times.
CHRISTY BOLINGBROKE: So, Kate, how or sometimes it's a question of when did you know that you wanted to be a choreographer? Was it a decision?
KATE WALLICH: Oh, wow. So I, I guess, like I have, I've always made dances, my, my mom ran a daycare out of my basement. And I feel like my earliest dances were like with the daycare kids, being like, I want to put on a show. And I also want to be the director of that show. So I definitely, you know, I think, maybe started my early onset choreographic career making dances to Britney Spears, and daycare kids. But I guess, you know, when I, when I really began, like, graduated from college, and when to enter the field, I just, I, I didn't really have like the fire under my ass to like, go audition to be in a dance company. Like, there was something else that was pulling me to create, and it was sort of then when I made the decision, like, I just, I think I want to make work like I want to, I want to be in a dance studio and figure out what's going on in my life and what's going on in the world around me and just sort of take that in. And so I started, I started researching, I started figuring out what my body was trying to do and say and sort of unfold and, and the dances just sort of started to get made in that way.
CHRISTY BOLINGBROKE: I love that. Well, and also the clarity that you can recall, even as a child, directing people, and and if there's anything from my own observation of your work now is there still is that spirit in everything that you do of “let's put on a show!” Right, like that, that has such great sense of fun and play. But you were talking about, like, thinking of you know, how to process the world and who you are. So can you talk a little bit more about so like, where do you begin in making a dance? Is there a point of inspiration or, like a consistent way that you start?
KATE WALLICH: I have been thinking about this a lot lately, because when I first like started my career, you know, on the other side of education, I just, everything always started in my body. Like something was going on in my body. I didn't really know what was going on. But I had this like deep guttural desire to like, you know, untangle it, and be in a dance studio and research it, and figure it out. And, you know, the the pieces, the works, the sort of impetus, the dancers in the room with me, always sort of spawned from that place. And as you know, I got more opportunities or was applying for festivals, etc., eventually, that sort of shifted, where like a commission would come first or the idea would come first, rather than it coming from my body. And now being you know, making I think I've made five evening length works now. I'm, I'm, I'm sort of in this place right now, where I feel like I'm kind of going back to the beginning. Like the dances, the dance is inside of me. And, you know, the commission is not necessarily there right at this exact moment. Like I'm not, I'm not like searching for the opportunity to put the dance on a proscenium stage. And because of that, I have my bodies speaking to me in this like really deep way. So I would say that the dances the dances come from, from me what's happening in the world, my body, what conversations I'm seeing existing in, you know, the people around me, whether that be dancers, friends, colleagues, people in the field, or, you know, what were the sort of energy that the world is carrying. All of that sort of environment is the thing that sort of, like, affects me three dimensionally multimodally, you know?
CHRISTY BOLINGBROKE: Oh yeah. With that in mind that a energy is such a great use of term. Because I was also reflecting on a couple of those evening length works that music or sound has had a really big deciding factor I'm thinking of, from my my experience, seen film of Industrial Ballet, which is sort of like dance show meets rock show. And then you did kind of do a big music rock show when you collaborated with Perfume Genius. So how would you reflect and describe your relationship to sound?
KATE WALLICH: Oh, I love that question. I, I mean, I love music, I, I was just talking to two my collaborators and colleagues, Thomas House and Lavinia Vago about this. Because we were like, “what came first: dance or music?” and like, we were really like, trying to, like, distinguish, like, what came first and were like, “they just came together.” Like music lives in the body, like, and the body generates sound, you know. And so I think just like growing up, like I always, like, I just, you know, whether it was pop music, rock music, metal music, now, you know, rave music, dance music. I, I just I listened to music. And so when it came time to make dances, whether that was making a dance on something that existed already, eventually, I got to this place where I was, like, I want to make like, original work, obviously. And so it just was a natural thing to be like I don't like I want to make make something that exists beyond me, beyond something that already is out there in the world. And so every work that I've ever made, for the most part has always I've always worked with original musicians or compo… like composers on the creation. Like the idea of like, having nothing and creating something, you know. And so they always were born together. They came, the creation existed beyond something that was already living in the world. That said, now, you know, with Dance Church and my, my work there, it's really interesting, because, like, we work with a lot of music that already exists in the world, you know, and are still creating this energy that you know music is an entry point. People love pop music, people love like the radio. And I think like with Dance Church, it's an opportunity to be music as an entry point for people, you know. They may not understand what the dance is doing or saying, but the music ignites a certain sense of feeling in in the body and a big part of Dance Church, like truly, like dancers would be nothing without the music, you know. So yeah…
CHRISTY BOLINGBROKE: There's there's something in that both the Dance church experience, but then also I thank you for sharing that, you know, conversation with both Tommy and Lavi about, you know, that they came together at the same time. I'm compelled to share if you haven't already seen it, the David Byrne Talking Heads documentary Stop Making Sense (Wallich responds, “Oh”). So in the 80s, and that is the concert and series where he very famously performed in this giant oversized suit. And it was quirky and weird and think about the fashion of the 80s. And in the special features, when interviewed and asked like, “what's with the suit? Why this weird costume piece?” And he says, “because sometimes the body gets something before the head. And I wanted to reflect that. That the body is this oversized, sort of conduit for ideas and information.” And so yeah, I wanted to share that. Take that back to the team (Wallich responds, “Mmm, love that”). And of course, then it resonates with what Dance Church is. From my own experience, taking Dance Church to, we are following the leader in that sets this mood and arc and tone, and it's a dialogue. You acknowledge some of your longtime collaborators and dancers. We do have some, you know, budding dancers who may graduate and want to work out in the world. What do you look for, in a dancer?
KATE WALLICH: Umm that's a great question. I, relationships are everything, like, I, when I think about looking for a dancer, like it, I am not necessarily looking for a dancer, I'm looking for a person, you know, like a person to have a relationship with. We talk a lot about the concept of like dance thinkers. So dancers who are like in the world living in the world, identifying as the dance artist being like, this is my medium, this is my form, this is how my body sees and experiences the world. And to sort of, you know, be inspired and, and find people like that, that, that are like walking through the world as like an individual, as a person, as someone who sees and, like takes in all of that through the lens in the body and outputs it through the lens of the body. But like, I I do not see that as being technique or being like aesthetic or being like lines or forms. You know, like I see that as being like, mind, you know, mind energy. I have this concept that I talk about called One, Two, and Three. And one is the the idea of the body, two is the sort of relational or energetic space, and three is more of the visionary conceptual space. Even if like those three things, and individual are just a seed and haven't even been realized, like, you can tell when someone has all three of those things, you know, and so I tried to energetically find people who have that.
CHRISTY BOLINGBROKE: So yeah, no, I love that. And the very idea that it's not just a question of technique is exactly I think, at the heart of why we decided to call this particular teaching series that you've been working with students this past week, “21st century Dance Practices,” right? Like so much of the 20th century really centered codified techniques: you were a ballet dancer, a Horton dancer, a Limón, a Cunningham, a Graham. And those things are still a part of our foundation. But it's a little bit like what's next? And so I'm curious how you would define virtuosity, artistic virtuosity. Because I think that's something that people mourn a little bit it, you know, they, they don't want to lose the technique. It's fun. To kick your leg really high, it's fun to jump really high. So how would you define virtuosity as a 21st century dance maker?
KATE WALLICH: Interesting. You know, just like thinking about those containers that existed or that sort of precede, like, where we are now, right? Cunningham, or in ballet, like, those containers, oftentimes ask people to drop their shit at the door, for lack of a better term, you know, and it was kind of like, come in, and now you're inside of this world. And I've I've always sort of like countered that I'm like, actually, what if we like came into the room with all of the shit, you know. And I do think that choreography, a dance move, in itself is a container, you know, and I think that what makes the the leg hitting someone's head or like dropping to the floor or the leap or the turn or the standing and staring is is not just the container, it's the thing, the person, the energy, the feelings, the you know, the identity of the person that lives inside of that container and exudes and radiates all that energy out into the world. And so like, defining virtuosity, like is discovering that, like finding that you know. Being in in rigorous and dedicated to, to the sort of bigger picture mission, vision of the person behind the choreography, the person behind the doing the choreography, behind kicking the leg in the air. And the leg being kicked is just is just a structure to you know, get whatever is being said outside of there, you know. A writer uses language like a dancer uses the dance. And so I think that that to me is is defining virtuosity. It's having something to say, you know, and having…
CHRISTY BOLINGBROKE: Oh, I love that. No sorry, did you want to finish up?
KATE WALLICH: I also know that like virtuosity is like, it's also a skill set. But like, what is that skill set? I think it's really hard to make the work you want to make or say the thing that you truly mean to say, you know, and it takes practice and time to figure out how to really say that or do that or be that. And so, I think like the dedication and the rigor to discovering and figuring out how to actually do that, and how to say what you mean and dance what you mean to dance is being a virtuosic artist, you know?
CHRISTY BOLINGBROKE: It it…and you brought so much in that, right, that it's more than meeting a deadline is what I'm hearing, you know. It's not just like, “I've got a to do list and I'm gonna check, check this off.” But it's like, how do you work through it? How, how do you make sense if you're like, “Oh, we thought it was this. But now we learned more, we have to go back and remake something.” And you also acknowledge, you know, other mediums like writing, and that's one of the things that we hope are Inside the Dancer’s Studio series relates not just to people who are in the dance field, but people who anyone who's had to face the blank page. And you were talking a lot about the labor. And one of the other questions that we have gotten from our students sometimes is like, how do you name something? After weeks, months, maybe years of work? And then you have to just put a title on it? How do you come up with your titles?
KATE WALLICH: Oh god, titling is like the hardest thing in the world. It really…yeah.
CHRISTY BOLINGBROKE: That's pretty universal. Everyone's like, “It’s the worst.”
KATE WALLICH: It's a definition. Like to me, like I mentioned earlier, like creation exists, like I see creation is existing beyond any one person or any one thing. And so, and when I'm generating an identity for a work, the title is swirling around in that big pot, you know, whether it's like, how how do I want to contextualize this to the world, and I think that like, sometimes the title can help be an impetus to that contextualization, you know, and at other times, like the title actually needs, needs to, like, it can come later in the process as the work more and more defines itself. And then it becomes like the exclamation point or the period, you know. To me, like, a work is so three dimensional, right? Like, the branding of it, the design of it, the people of it, the concepts of it, the the the language that sits on top to on top of it, or inside of it, the role of a curator or presenter that helps sort of like, sort of bring more more context to, to the thing. It's kind of like a balance, you know, of being like, what what does the work need and when to be (unclear) packaged up to and delivered to people. And so that's how I think about my titles. When I'm titling a work. It's like, what is this mean, right now? Does that make sense?
CHRISTY BOLINGBROKE: Yeah, it totally does. And then I think one of the other very relatable questions, regardless, whether you're a painter or a choreographer, or a writer, or or anyone who's working on a big project is what do you do if you find yourself in a rut? You know, the the creative juices aren't coming that day? Maybe you brought in a lot more extra baggage than you normally would, and you just can't move forward with what the task and inquiry is at hand. Do you have any advice for getting out of a rut or pushing through?
KATE WALLICH: Yes, I think I…so this is just reminding me of one time I was in a rehearsal, and I just like the choreographic problem, just like I could not figure out the solution. It was like weeks and weeks and like all of us in the studio, like I was just like, it was like hitting my head against the wall. And I had like a breakdown in the studio and one of the artists who I was working with at the time was like, “Kate, I think you need to like come more prepared to to the space” and I was like, and I I was like, in retrospect it like at the time I was like, “wait, no, we're like trying to solve this together,” you know, but in retrospect, I'm like, I'm like, like, I also understand, like, why that artist said that, you know, because I do think that like that container of rehearsal wasn't enough in that moment for solving the choreographic solution or finding the choreographic solution. And so, like when I'm in a rut, and when I really feel like I'm hitting my head against the wall, like something has to change, like patterns, as soon as you notice patterns, like they have to be broken otherwise, like, you, you know, you have to have the awareness of the pattern is happening. And then once you have that awareness, like, like shift it, change it. And so like, that was this moment for me to be like, maybe I need to try something different, like do something completely, like out of left field, you know, or like, really just take like a 90 degree angle, shift and turn, and just break up that pattern and see what happens, you know? So that' what, that would be my advice.
CHRISTY BOLINGBROKE: Oh, it's beautiful. You know, how I feel about habits and patterns, because you're also one of our creative admin research artists. So we've been talking about breaking administrative patterns. It's a really beautiful idea and invitation to…because you know, what, what is the saying, like, “it's a fool who just does the same things over and over again, and expects different results.” So that sounds like the definition of a rut to me. I think but you turned it around. Thank you so much for sharing that very personal experience with us. We have one last question. And it is kind of in a similar sort of vein. I would love to invite you to either pass on what the best piece of advice is that you've ever received, or to offer up a piece of advice in your own words, to our other dance makers, and people who have creative habits.
KATE WALLICH: The, the one thing that is coming to my mind that I truly feel like was some of the best advice that I ever got. And it's gonna feel not very like artistic. But if you guys sort of look at it through the lens of artistry, I feel like it can be a huge deal. But I had a friend who was a business owner, and she told me, she owns like a little restaurant, and she was like, a juice bar, actually. she was like, “Kate, the best business is the business that's already happening.” And I think that the reason why like I feel like this is great advice for an artist is like, things that are already existing in like, they're having, like we are that is presents to me, like that concept is like just being fully and entuned and hyper-aware and super present. Like listening to what people want, listening to what your body wants, listening to what the world wants, and making hyperactive choices that are reflecting all of that. Rather than making choices that are just in the future or making choices that are holding on to the past, you know. And so if the thing is already happening, and you're just on that snowball, that's like falling down a mountain that's turning into an avalanche, like that is how it will turn into an avalanche, you know. Just being inside of it and not trying to make the piece happen, you know, not trying to make your work like you know, live on a stage or go on a tour, you know. So that was like a really good piece of advice that I got. So I'll leave people with that, I guess.
CHRISTY BOLINGBROKE: And it's beautiful again. Thank you so much for this time, Kate. Thanks to our entire team for pivoting to the virtual space. Stay safe out there. Bye y'all.
OUTRODUCTION: Inside The Dancer’s Studio Lunchtime Talk Series is supported by NCCAkron, the University of Akron, the University of Akron Foundation and the Mary Schiller Myers Lecture Series in the Arts. Our podcast program is produced by Jennifer Edwards. Ellis Rovin is our composer and editor. Theme music by Floco Torres, cover art by Micah Kraus. Special thanks to Kat Wentz and the team on the ground in Akron, Ohio. To learn more about NCC Akron, please visit us online at nccakron.org. And follow us on Instagram or Facebook at NCCAkron. We hope you enjoyed this episode, and we encourage you to subscribe on your favorite podcast streaming platform by searching for Inside The Dancer’s Studio. Please share with your friends and if you’d like to help get the word out rate us, and leave a review on Apple podcasts. Thanks for listening and stay curious.