In this episode, NCCAkron's Executive/Artistic Director Christy Bolingbroke enters the 'studio' with Bebe Miller (Columbus, OH). Miller has been named a Master of African American Choreography by the Kennedy Center, has received four “Bessie” awards, United States Artists and Guggenheim Fellowships, honorary doctorates from Ursinus College, and Franklin & Marshall College, and is one of the inaugural class of Doris Duke Artist Award recipients.
In this episode, NCCAkron's Executive/Artistic Director Christy Bolingbroke enters the 'studio' with Bebe Miller (Columbus, OH). Miller has been named a Master of African American Choreography by the Kennedy Center, has received four “Bessie” awards, United States Artists and Guggenheim Fellowships, honorary doctorates from Ursinus College, and Franklin & Marshall College, and is one of the inaugural class of Doris Duke Artist Award recipients.
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ARTIST BIO
Bebe Miller (Columbus, OH), an American choreographer, dancer, and director, first performed her work at NYC’s Dance Theater Workshop in 1978. Interested in “finding a physical language for the human condition,” she formed Bebe Miller Company in 1985. The Company has performed extensively in the UK, Europe, Africa, and throughout the US. Miller's choreography, noted for its mix of virtuosic, athletic speed, and fragile humanity, has been commissioned by Oregon Ballet Theatre, Dayton Contemporary Dance Company, Boston Ballet, Philadanco, the UK’s Phoenix Dance Company, and PACT Dance Company of Johannesburg, South Africa. She was named a Master of African American Choreography by the Kennedy Center, has received four Bessie awards, United States Artists and Guggenheim Fellowships, honorary doctorates from Ursinus College and Franklin & Marshall College, and is one of the inaugural class of Doris Duke Artist Award recipients.
CHRISTY BOLINGBROKE: Bebe, When did you know you wanted to be a choreographer?
BEBE MILLER: Well, I, I started dancing before I could read, really. And so I was fortunate that I started it with improvisation and composition along with dance technique, the, the Nikolais technique in New York City at Henry Street Settlement House. And Murray Louis was my teacher, so I was right into kind of that classic abstract, modern dance, which I loved, I loved, I loved. So making dance, making movement, exploring was always part of what I did. I think, you know, I kind of danced as a kid, I stopped it, quit my piano lessons, trying to be cooler. When, got back into dance in college and, and I guess I was back in New York when I realized I was, I was working with a, a, a choreographer, Nina Wiener, who I had met when I was in grad school, and it was like, ‘I think I’m making movement and so I’m already doing that, so perhaps I am a choreographer.’ The, I, they were, it was always part of, part of my, my sense of self I think. I didn’t see myself as a technical dancer only, but just trying to figure out what’s the vocabulary that, that I, I need to use, or, or, or develop in order to follow my interest. So, yeah. And then, then you make a piece and, and, and the first piece was with the other waiters in my, in the restaurant that I worked in and. And I, and I love just telling this to, you know, kind of new choreographers and, you, you work so hard to get to the first one and then it doesn’t occur to you that there’s gonna be a second one. But things come up during that process, during the, the, the finished piece as well, and then you can like, well, maybe I’ll keep on going and see who else I can work with. So, yeah.
CHRISTY BOLINGBROKE: And I love that you’re like, you don’t always think about the, the, the second one. You’re focusing on the task in front of you, but where do you start? You know, some people might call it inspiration. Some people might call it the blank page if they’re a writer. What helps you begin or get things going?
BEBE MILLER: I think that, well we can say the blank studio floor for one just, you know, those initial steps. But they, that also means that you've been listening in a certain way, listening to, to, to movement and to ideas and to the people around you. Not so much necessarily when thinking I’m gonna make a dance of this, but more of, ‘What’s going on? Oh, I, what is it about that particular beat versus this other one?’ Or someone is telling a story and I overheard this as I was walking behind a group of people and it catches your eye. So it’s the confluence, I feel, of a lot of things and maybe what, what is also involved in that is that you are acclimating yourself to listening on a number of levels. Not just for what the dance is gonna be, but like what are you feeling? What’s the tension in your body in a particular moment, in, in response to what? Politically, socially, environmentally. And so I feel that, that choreography is a real exercise in resonance. Of what are you thinking and feeling and then you put that with like, ‘ok, I am entering into this studio place and I feel released into activity. Or I feel really constrained or in a corner. Or some combination of that.’ So that, that’s how it is for me. I rarely have a, a worked out theme or necessarily even a piece of music that I’m, that I want to use. It’s more of kind of setting the day you start and seeing what’s there. Tricky sometimes, but, but I find that that’s really satisfying.
CHRISTY BOLINGBROKE: Yeah, and I’m, I’m, I appreciate that you brought up music. One of the questions that our students offered up in advance was how do you navigate, you know, they, they talked about it as music permissions because as they sort of come out of their studio and university experience they realize, like, wait, you can’t just use whatever music you want. And you’ve also in, in some of your works used popular music, Top 40, or interviews that were originally featured on television. Can you talk a little bit about, you know, how and when that comes into play?
BEBE MILLER: Sure, that’s, that’s a good question. And I think that, that even before we’re thinking about how, which music you might want to use, you’re really also thinking about what rhythmic base am I working in? And, which is not necessarily a 4-4 or a 6-8, but almost like the, the timing of your weight in space. The timing of da, da. ‘Oh, I’m hesitating, oh yeah, but now I go.’ So there’s a, there’s a rhythm of action that’s not necessarily consistent with music that you’re putting against something that’s, generally if it’s a pop tune it’s already set. So you’re setting yourself in relationship. And so then, the question is, like, how, not necessarily, how am I gonna find that music and dance to it, but how does it relate to what I’ve already put in motion? And I feel that then, then the branching into different kinds of music, a more percussive or, or more classical which has a whole range about which classicism we’re talking about, or words, or text, or voices, or the combination of sound and silence. You, and even that rhythmic thing. One of my favorite moments in our last piece in a rhythm, I started with Brick House by The Commodores, which is like, a fabulous dance tune, and in working with our stage manager in rehearsal, I just had her turn it on and off. Up to her. On and off. And we kept on going, so it was interesting just to hear like when it, you get into the funk of it, you get into your response and then the music isn’t there so what do you do? And how do you listen to what it is that you are doing? So that was just a, a good device, choreographically just to encounter the sound in a different way. So there’s all kinds of, you know, sound is all around us and we know that. You know, there’s birds chirping, there’s traffic, it’s an endless thing. Lots of choices around.
CHRISTY BOLINGBROKE: But I’m reminded of where you started our conversation about listening too. So rather than saying like I’m going to do this [piece of music but you, you rather, you’re listening to what does this need and, and what happens when that music isn’t there anymore? I love that idea, it’s a very porous making space. At the same time, there are very real challenges. And another one of our students’ questions is how do you name a dance? Like, you might not be done making it yet and yet the, you know, program title is needed, or the marketing materials are needed, and so it feels, I think especially for something long form like dance, that needs to unfold over time and we’re gonna precisely bring it down to 100 characters. I’m curious, how do you title things?
BEBE MILLER: Oh wow, that’s great. It makes me think of some of my favorite titles in, you know, over the last span of a career. The single word ‘Rain,’ I loved, was one of an early, solo of mine. One of my first group pieces was ‘A Haven for Restless Angels of Mercy.’ So something about, like, just the, the, the dynamic emotional imagined place that might be. But coming up with them it, it’s, it’s, maybe one piece of advice is it doesn’t happen all at once and perhaps you’re just listening, you know, your, over the course of making like, ‘oh yeah, that, that sense of rhythm, but it doesn’t feel like it’s in rhythm with anything else so I’m not sure where I’m going. What does rhythm mean?’ I had a piece called ‘Rhythm Studies’ and I called it that because I had, it was when I first came to Ohio State and I set myself, like, time like, ‘oh gosh I have six weeks in the studio to make a solo.’ And the rhythm of my life would not, kept keeping me out of the studio. So it took a long time just to figure out what is this rhythm of my life and why can’t I control it. So, I felt like, well, rhythm studies is how I’m figuring out how I’m living through this. So it’s a ques, what, what perks your interest, let it sit for a bit, what’s in relationship to that? Let that sit for a bit. What do you see in movement? What do you feel? And write down stuff and you can be real abstract and pick every other word and there you have something or the day comes when you have to title it and there you go.
CHRISTY BOLINGBROKE: And you just have to, have to move forward with it. Well, similar with the day coming and, and cause we haven’t found a way to stop the world yet, one of the other questions that has come up is how do you, like, maneuver your way out of a rut? Maybe you’ve only carved out those six weeks, maybe you have a deadline whether it’s a grant deadline or an opening night and you have to continue to move forward and get this thing done, but, you know, the magic just isn’t happening. Do you have any habits to sort of break out of a creative rut?
BEBE MILLER: They come and they will continue to come and maybe that’s a comfort. That it’s not just happening to you this one time and oh my gosh what’s wrong with me? But perhaps you’re on the cusp of looking for another way that you don’t recognize and, you know, it’s worked for you in the past. It’s like this one, two, three, four, and you might be realizing that hey maybe it’s one, two, three, four, five. One, two, three, four, five, six, one, two, three, four, one, two, one, two, one. A one. So, if we think that those ruts, you know, even just the visuals of a rut, there are edges to it and then there’s a rise and that put another perspective on either side. I think best of, of take your time breathe, do, do something so that you can, like, figure out did that service me? Did I feel like I was, did I feel like it that I was in, in current conversation with what I just did? Huh. Maybe it’s a different language, huh, maybe I need a break, maybe I need a walk around the block. And I think particularly if you’re working with people, if you have collaborators, other dancers or composer or, with you, that that conversation of what did you see, did you feel that? We sometimes in those working situations with other dancers feel that we have to know, we have to say, ‘ok, and now you’re gonna do this. That was great, and now we’re gonna do this.’ But sometimes, you might just say, ‘You know, I don’t know what to do next, can we try that again? I don’t know what to do next, let's, maybe that’s it for the day.’ Which is radical, and I think sometimes when you pay for that rehearsal space in particular, it’s like, I’ve got to fill it up, but maybe you’re filling it up with thinking and musing or lying on the floor looking at the ceiling.
CHRISTY BOLINGBROKE: I love the idea too of just do something even if it’s not that section. Let’s let’s see it another way or revisit it again, which is really great. You mentioned dancers and collaborators…
BEBE MILLER: And actually that’s a really good, let me just, let me just think about that, that repeating it and then if, if you’re the choreographer and you’re not in it, move into another part of the room and watch it. See it from like three quarter angle, what, where is, is it? Is it frontal, does it need to be frontal, do you not understand what, maybe you’re mistaken about what is actually front. Maybe it’s a three-dimensional piece. It’s like all those are really good, kind of concrete questions to ask of what you’re doing. Particularly if you’re used to working with a mirror as front. Maybe just turn away from it and see what else is there.
CHRISTY BOLINGBROKE: I love that idea, I think too we have a sort of conditioned training where the choreographer supposed to be the, the visionary at the front of the room and just direct everything and make the magic happen and you’re like, ‘oh, what if I move myself and see what new things come up?’ And sort of displace that too. That’s beautiful. I, I was gonna ask what do you look for in dancers or collaborators?
BEBE MILLER: Oh, interesting. There have been times when I’ve had open auditions for, for dancers. It’s, it’s, it’s been a while since I’ve done that but, and I found that what I would often do if there, you know, 50 people, 100 people, 20 people in a room, I look at what’s happening off, on the edges. Like, how are they treating each other? Are they, do I feel their personality? Are they trying to just, you know, kind of trample over everybody else just to be seen? Cause you’re really talking about who do you want in the room with you when you don’t know what to do? And who’s gonna, who are you gonna be comfortable with? At a certain point, I mean, I love how I see per, the personality through the, the, the dancer. That there is a, a there there. That there’s something else that they are imagining and working with or working against or a problem solving that is visible and that’s who I want to work with. And I think in, I’ve been very fortunate in that I’ve had a number of collaborators that I’ve, who I’ve worked with over many years. And it’s kind of the, they, they have an ability, so I feel like I can see them thinking and that is a real gift to be in the room with. They are not a blank slate, they are, they are, there’s something, it's the rub that’s in the room that is, that is generative between us. And I really like that. So.
CHRISTY BOLINGBROKE: More information as far as who’s in the room…
BEBE MILLER: Yeah, sure. Yeah.
CHRISTY BOLINGBROKE: And the presence of that. The title of our series that you taught as part of this week is ‘21 century dance practices.’ And for us it really was about breaking open the binary that’s prev, still prevalent in higher education today, that either it’s modern, or ballet. And we specifically don't try to uplift a single technique, but rather to say these are artists that are working today who are navigating and finding their own way from their experiences and especially is an artist whose career spans across the latter half of the 20th century and continues today. What does the term ‘21st century dance practices’ mean to you? How might you interpret it?
BEBE MILLER: And, and just knowing that I also kind of, of grew up in the, you know, in the dance boom of the ‘80s, that my 20th century dancing dance practice is very much a part of my 21st century. So, so, and I’m, when I’m, I think back on my own development and how I started with, you know, abstract modern dance and one of my next practices was West African dance, Ghanaian dance, and right after that was Balkin Folk Dancing, women’s line dances, and then a Cunningham class and then. Nina Weiner who had worked with the Twyla Tharp company, so very articulate, sensual technically really hard but, you know, kind of the, how do you figure out how to do this? So, I feel like this span of the, which, whichever century. If you, how you pay attention over time to what is in front of you is what we’re given. And so I think because 21st century, that theater is just a plethora of direction to turn to, and sources both online particularly in the past year of, you know, what is visible, what is catching your eye? And that you are the only person who can really kind of codify what it is you see and what your interest is. So all the tools that are gonna keep you strong, that are gonna keep you nimble and, and, and, and active and flexible in mind and body, they’re, they can come from your yoga practice, your, your step dancing, your, you know, East African as well as West African, your Irish stepping. You know, all of this are ways of moving that are interesting. So, you know, and you don’t have to do all of them, but it’s just like there is a, you get to, to carve the thing that you are interested in. And I think in the 21st century more and more, just that ability to source the world, I mean that’s what the internet can offer us, so, yeah.
CHRISTY BOLINGBROKE: Yeah. Well and, and I think something that I’m noticing too, I think still to this day one of the scariest invitations you can make to someone is ‘come to my dance show,’ because they’re like I don’t know what that means. You know, and, but then we, because the internet is a new platform and social media, things like Instagram or Facebook or Tik Tok, that people can rehearse that jump, that 8 counts over and over again, film themselves over and over again and then quickly distribute it, it out, it’s, it’s changing how we perceive dance, right? Because we’re not spending an hour and a half with it in the dark theater, but just in those short bursts. So, I, I would offer that it’s also, it’s, it’s changing how people define dance, certainly how they might define virtuosity because it’s those short moments.
BEBE MILLER: For sure.
CHRISTY BOLINGBROKE: How do you define virtuosity in dance?
BEBE MILLER: I think that there’s, I, I, I, I feel, you know, and personally speaking of there, there is a pull toward what is it that I do and how do I, how do I do it, and what makes it, where is it leading me? It’s not so much what makes me better at it, but it’s like where is it leading me and does it call for me to know how I can balance and arrest myself on one foot. Like, ok, then I better figure out how I want to do that. Or if on that one foot, is everything else in motion? So that calls for a whole other alignment. Is it all on the floor, it’s like, what, what is happening physically and what’s the, what’s the next step in that? How do I then train my, my body and my awareness to, oh woah, I’ve been working in my furniture, woah, but I notice that the velocity if I drop back on the, on my sofa behind me is a feeling that I don’t get in the studio and I want something about both of those, so how do I notice, and then what do I learn from repeatedly dropping myself on this, on the sofa about velocity? So, there’s a, we are, we have been given a year of a whole nother set of tools and I'm, I’m fascinated with the idea that, that out of this is going to, to come something, something else. But there is also something you said about because of our access to the internet and what’s online, there is still the live experience which is not necessarily the theatrical experience, but even if, say, you’re working on something and you want to just put it outside now that the weather is warmer, or you, and, you invite, you know, some sort of a, a cypher circle of, of, of, of friends to just contribute at 11 o’clock at night in the middle of a still block, you know, like that there’s no traffic and you’re like let’s see what we can do. Boom, boom, boom. Even if you film it, there is still a live moment. And I think that, then, I, I don’t want us to give up on that. I don’t want us to just rely only on the internet because ultimately there’s a flat front and I’m talking to you, and I’m talking to you, but there is a, there is a particular kind of framing involved and when you’re out in a three-dimensional live moment, there’s a different kind of framing that, that we want to still keep investigating. So, so, you know, what are the tools? We got, we got all of this, and how do we keep that, how do we keep it alive?
CHRISTY BOLINGBROKE: I mean, just hearing you also reflect and, and talk about your own approach it’s gonna change how I watch your work again now. Whether it is live or on video, and I, I want to acknowledge for our friends in the chat that, that we’ve shared a couple of different links, highly recommend checking out ‘The Making Room,’ ‘In a Rhythm.’ Lots of amazing content online if you’ve reached the end of the internet and you are craving dance performances, I hope you’re just as inspired as I am to go back and revisit those. Bebe, I have one more question and this is, this is for any one of our students, but I think certainly especially in this last year, artists navigating their way through a pandemic, what advice might you offer for someone who’s trying to navigate a creative career?
BEBE MILLER: Best advice that it’s, you have, you, it’s a long career. It’s not a, it’s not, it’s not over when you’re 32, or when you’re 44. Your tools change, your body changes, your interests change, and all those things are feeding into what you do. So, even though I’m, this may be hard, you know, you feel like I’ve missed a year in the studio, but you’ve gained a year of your life in a very particular way, so how do you reflect back on it? What is, what’s rising because of that? Because you’ve been in your, your bedroom studio, how well do you know it? So, there’s a, we’ve, we've missed a lot, we’ve been around illness, we’ve been, we’ve lost friends and, and relatives, though there are political and social consciousness has shifted radically, and all in the course of this year. So, however many more we get, we have the, the ability to just kind of farm that into our psyche, into our physicality, and continue. All we get is continuing. And so, we make the most of it.
CHRISTY BOLINGBROKE: Yes, thank you, thank you so much Bebe. Thank you friends for tuning in, I want to acknowledge that you can join us for our next Inside the Dancer’s Studio conversation on Friday, March 19th with Paula Mann out of Minneapolis. And you can go to NCCAkron.org/insidethedancersstudio to make sure that you register and get that link. Thank y'all so much, have a great weekend, and keep continuing. Thank you.
BEBE MILLER: Thanks.