In this episode, NCCAkron's Executive/Artistic Director, Christy Bolingbroke enters the 'studio' with Pittsburgh, PA-based artists, taylor knight & anna thompson who are co-founding artistic directors of slowdanger. Through the process of making each piece, they work with a heightened understanding of energy, synergy, action, gender, time, and storytelling. slowdanger’s work has been presented in the US and Canada by venues including the John F. Kennedy Center for the Arts, Springboard Danse Montreal, Carnegie Museum of Art, and Place Des Arts, among others.
In this episode, NCCAkron's Executive/Artistic Director, Christy Bolingbroke enters the 'studio' with Pittsburgh, PA-based artists, taylor knight & anna thompson who are co-founding artistic directors of slowdanger. Through the process of making each piece, they work with a heightened understanding of energy, synergy, action, gender, time, and storytelling. slowdanger’s work has been presented in the US and Canada by venues including the John F. Kennedy Center for the Arts, Springboard Danse Montreal, Carnegie Museum of Art, and Place Des Arts, among others.
http://slowdangerslowdanger.com
INTRODUCTION:Thanks for joining us Inside The Dancer’s Studio, where we bring listeners like you closer to the creative process. Inside The Dancer’s Studio is a program of the National Center for Choreography at the University of Akron as part of our Ideas in Motion initiative. This episode was recorded in the presence of a live audience in 2023. Today we join Christy Bolingbroke, our Executive/Artistic Director, in conversation with Pittsburgh, PA-based artists, taylor knight & anna thompson who are co-founding artistic directors of slowdanger. slowdanger uses a systematic approach to produce their performance work. Through the process of making each piece, they work with a heightened understanding of energy, synergy, action, gender, time, and storytelling. slowdanger’s work has been presented in the US and Canada by venues including the John F. Kennedy Center for the Arts, Springboard Danse Montreal, Carnegie Museum of Art, and Place Des Arts, among others.
CHRISTY BOLINGBROKE: How or when did you decide to become a choreographer? [thompson: Hmm. Absolutely] And this, I don't know if you decided together [thompson: Yeah] or not. So that let's also make sure to make space for that conversation.
ANNA THOMPSON: Definitely. For me, as an individual, my mother was a dancer [Bolingbroke: Hmm]. So, dance was always like, circulating my life, from the time I started it and even before. Her sister was also like, heavy in the contact improv community [Bolingbroke: Hmm] in Boston. So, she tells me stories about us, me and my little sister, when we were like, under 5, like we would all go out on the lawn and like, do a little jam together. And I remember, I've like visceral memories of like closing my eyes and imagining other scenes as I was dancing [Bolingbroke: Hmm]. So, I think that as I grew older, I realized those kinds of feelings, and even dreams I had of dancing were perhaps creative visions that I could actualize [Bolingbroke: Mm-huh], in a kind of a tangible way.
CHRISTY BOLINGBROKE: And stay open to imagination [thompson: Yeah. Mm-huh]. I love that. Yeah.
ANNA THOMPSON: But I think I always like trained as a performer. And it wasn't really until I met taylor, and also started working with Pearlann Porter that I started to be like, Yes, I think I really do need to make things [Bolingbroke: Mm-huh] outside of what I'm being given to perform.
CHRISTY BOLINGBROKE: Mmm. And where did you meet Pearlann and taylor? Was that both in Pittsburgh?
ANNA THOMPSON: Yes, yeah, at Point Park University. I was a student. We were both students at the same time. Pearlann was our professor [Bolingbroke: Mm-huh]. And we both started working with her towards the later end of our journey at Point Park [Bolingbroke: Mmm]. And in that sense, like, was, for me, I didn't have a lot of performance opportunities while I was at school, so that became my kind of, like re-examination of what I wanted [Bolingbroke: Mm-huh] to be. I, prior to that was thinking, I was going to do the Broadway track [Bolingbroke: Mm-huh]. And then I started to change [laughs].
CHRISTY BOLINGBROKE: I mean, never say never. But I…
ANNA THOMPSON: …Exactly. Never say never.
CHRISTY BOLINGBROKE: I love that [thompson: Yeah], like instead of waiting [thompson: Yeah] for it to happen, [thompson: Mm-huh] you're like, what, what else is possible?
ANNA THOMPSON: Exactly. I started to pursue other opportunities outside of the school while not getting what I felt like I needed in the conservatory.
CHRISTY BOLINGBROKE: Sure, sure. And taylor, what about you? When did, was there a conscious moment or choice to be like, I'm gonna make dances?
TAYLOR KNIGHT: [Laughs] I don't think, there eventually became a conscious moment where I started to realize, Oh, I want to dance, I want to be a choreographer. But I think I was choreographing before I ever took my first dance class [Bolingbroke: Mmm]. I think my way of engaging in play and imagination as a young person, was very much about creating a world that I could live in, and be multiple characters, and design sets in my room with my bedsheets and all these things. So, I kind of relate my interest in world building to play as a young person. And I had a younger sibling who was taking dance [Bolingbroke: Mm-huh]. And often I was waiting at the dance studio with my mom for my sibling to finish class. And I had a lot of energy. It was kind of the ham of the house personality. So, my mom I was like, why don't, you look like you're interested. So, I started taking Tap class [Bolingbroke: Mmm] at a young age and that slowly spooled into me taking more classes. The studio was like, you got to be in the prince charm—you got to be Prince Charming in the Cinderella play we're doing and all these things. So, it was then I started really getting interested in dance. And I would turn the lights off of my room and get glow sticks out and make my own dances to CDs that I had. But it wasn't until I was a student at Booker T. Washington High School for the Performing and Visual Arts in Dallas, Texas [Bolingbroke: Mm-huh] right, it took my first composition class, and it really start to think about choreography, through an academic lens and learning aspects of designing a composition. And there, I really kind of grew that interest in wanting to create my own pieces [Bolingbroke: Mm-huh]. As a student Point Park, as anna mentioned, where we went, we had to do senior projects, and one of the options that you had was to create your own piece. So, I worked with one of the musicians that would accompany the dance classes at school to design music for the piece. And that was really the first, that piece really the first time I felt like I had this intentionality to create something of my own vision. And I think after I left school, dancing with various companies, I realized how much that meant to me, to be a part of that process of [Bolingbroke: Mmm] collaborating and creating. anna and I were very much kind of, our relationship was growing a lot more at that time. And we shared a lot of the same visions of this idea of world building and multidisciplinary inspirations to creating, and a little bit of rejecting what our school told us was the pathway [Bolingbroke: Mm-huh] of success, and wanting to forge our own path and kind of stick to our, our gut in that way. And now it's, we're choreographing a lot so [Bolingbroke: Yes] [thompson: Yeah], it’s very exciting.
CHRISTY BOLINGBROKE: Well, I love the idea. I mean, just hearing both of your individual stories, it makes sense knowing you, this centered orientation around play [thompson: Hmm] around exploration. Not just the rejection, not just the multidisciplinarity of it. But then also being able to hint like that Tap was your first sort of dance class and introduction, and also working with musicians in college. This week, you had not only shared SUPERCELL as a work-in-process, but you also shared Ableton, one of the music software programs in the class that you guest taught. Can you talk to us a little bit more about your dance-making relationship to music? [thompson: Okay] [knight: Yeah] Because I think that is uniquely different for every choreographer, but then maybe especially more so embodied for y'all?
TAYLOR KNIGHT: Yeah [Thompson: Mm-huh]. I think for me, it definitely started with that first introduction to organized dance class being Tap, and creating rhythm and creating impact and vibration with my body. And feeling that in connection with the motion and space. As I progressed through my dance training, you start taking classes where there's musicians in the room accompanying the class [Bolingbroke: Mm-huh], and creating that sonic container. And that always really inspired me, that kind of visceral connection of vibration is, the word I always come back to, of feeling each other through that airspace [Bolingbroke: Hmm]. In college, I worked with a musician PJ Roduta, who was also an accompanist there. He was very generous with his time and his collaborative energy. And that really got me interested in wanting to create my own music because I saw dance. I wasn't satisfied with just creating the movement, I wanted to create the world, I wanted to have my hands in all the pots and there was an accompanist at Point Park named Charles Hall who came up to me one day in a dance class, and he was like you said, you're interested in making music, here's a little drum machine. You can borrow it and try some things out. And he was so generous with that way of giving me something to begin that exploration. And that really snowballed. And a lot of community members is really the biggest training I had. I was kind of the person who went in the room just started playing the keyboard had no formal training, and I would send it to my friends and be like, look what I made. Let me know your thoughts. And I would have friends who weren't musicians who'd say this is cool, maybe you should turn the metronome on and try a time signature [thompson and Bolingbroke laugh]. Maybe you should, you know, read some, watch some tutorials or read some, some literature around, you know, chords or whatever. So, I had a lot of friends [Bolingbroke: Supportive people] [thompson: Yeah, yeah, yeah] Supportive people. Exactly. And they had drum machines and other tools that they used, and we would get together and explore. And Ableton was kind of a stepping stone to, I got really into sample-based music and taking field recordings, putting them into software, manipulating them, and changing them. I started with Garage Band, which came on a computer that I had. And eventually, you learn that there's kind of super, souped-up versions of those same programs. And Ableton has this really amazing capability of being something you can use in a live scenario, to have some spontaneity and things on the fly. But you can also create long-form compositions and, and track things out. So, it became, and you can record instruments and vocals in. And anna and I shared a lot of interest in music together. And anna had their own background with that, with vocal training and other musical influences. So, the idea of Ableton just gave us a platform to archive and document, and be able to go back cut things apart, add effects. So, it came kind of a snowball effect. And we've been with Ableton for a while now. It feels like the right platform for us.
CHRISTY BOLINGBROKE: I mean, I don't know if Ableton has a nickname, but it almost sounds like another dancer or cast member [thompson: Yeah] [knight: Yes, it is]. Right? [knight: Yeah] That maybe locks it in a little bit more? [knight: Yeah] [thompson: Mm-huh] But it's something you can still go back to and play with [thompson: Yeah] [knight: Absolutely].
ANNA THOMPSON: Yeah, definitely. I think my entry to music came through more classical and musical theater-style vocal training [Bolingbroke: Mm-huh]. And then my seeking other ways of making music came out of feeling really bound in the technique that I was given as a vocalist feeling like, Oh, I only get to play these roles, because I'm a soprano [Bolingbroke: Hmm]. And those are the roles. I don't want to be an ingenue. That's boring. You know, it's like, and seeing how electronics could be a way for me to extend my voice into, as a vocalist, but also as another way of creating instrumentation [Bolingbroke: Mm-huh]. So also like, how can my voice be a synthesizer? How can I use my voice rhythmically through loop pedals or other kinds of mediums? And I think my entry to music also was always very collaborative [Bolingbroke: Hmm]. And I would say that also, in terms of choreography was a way for me to kind of connect with other people [Bolingbroke: Mm-huh]. Like I was in a witch house band before taylor, and I were working together. So kind of collaboratively and improvisationaly [Bolingbroke: A witch house band?] Yes. It was a very niche genre of music [Bolingbroke: Okay]. 2012 [thompson and Bolingbroke laugh]. Like down tempo, distorted, think the band Salem, also from Ohio maybe, no, maybe [knight: Michigan. Mm-huh]. Michigan. Yeah, so like kind of Midwestern like crumbly, distorted music [laughs] [Bolingbroke: Okay, okay]. And my I, I always had a lot of broad tastes of music [Bolingbroke: Mm-huh] around me. My grandmother was a classically trained pianist, my dad was into like psychedelic rock all the way to like experimental jazz. My mom, in addition to being a dancer was an aerobics teacher. So, they're, my cousin threw raves, you know. So, there was always like, a lot of different musical styles around me. And then I became really drawn to ambient music and kind of more experimental electronic music. And I think simultaneously or around the time that taylor and I were starting to make music, there was a music and media Festival in Pittsburgh that was deeply influential for me called VIA Festival. And they brought in a lot of underground electronic musicians to collaborate with new media artists. I think between the period of like 2010 and 2017, and taylor and I eventually ended up playing that festival, but just having that kind of nexus of like artists coming in who were like on the verge of becoming more mainstream or we're kind of, still in this kind of percolating experimental underground of electronic music and a certain era of [Bolingbroke: Mm-huh] time [Bolingbroke: Mm-huh], between like the 2000s. You know that [Bolingbroke: Yeah], what do we call that time? [Bolingbroke: The aughts] The aughts. Yeah, exactly. And, you know, being able to go to festivals, and kind of soak in what eventually deeply influenced the way that I think we were making music together.
CHRISTY BOLINGBROKE: You have an abundance of, of tools. You both, you dance in your own work. So, there's that, you know, facility that you carry with the body, you have, you have Ableton, I'm gonna call him Abe [thompson laughs and says: Yeah, yeah] We’re gonna call him Abe. You work with different types of collaborators. You've talked about community comes in [thompson: Mm-huh]. So where do you start with an idea?
ANNA THOMPSON: Mmm [knight: Hmmm]. Yeah, that's a great question. And I think something that came up towards the end of our chat yesterday [Bolingbroke: Mm-huh]. And I think it really depends, because sometimes we're making albums [Bolingbroke: Mmm]. And we're really just like, the dance is the composition of the music [Bolingbroke: Mm-huh], and the balance of how the album takes you through a particular journey. And then [Bolingbroke: It’s a great organizing idea]. Yeah [Bolingbroke: An album]. Yeah exactly. And then like we also like parallel in performing in music clubs and bars and touring in that way as well as DJing. So, it's like, how do we fill the container [Bolingbroke: Mm-huh] And in that space, often, the music Is the choreographic journey [Bolingbroke: Hmm]. And the dancing is kind of extended out of that, because we will do a full-on lift in the club. [Bolingbroke: Oh, yes] [Both Bolingbroke and thompson laugh]. We will.
CHRISTY BOLINGBROKE: I mean, when the spirit calls you…
ANNA THOMPSON: Exactly [taylor laughs]. You know, it's sometimes in the choreographic process, we want a lot of the music to come out of the actual like meat of the process, and the people coming together [Bolingbroke: Mm-huh]. And specifically for SUPERCELL, we started doing this score, we were calling “dance band,” where we've been like bringing together dancers, teaching them how to use our equipment, or having them bring things that they're already experimenting with. For example, Jasmine Hearn has an extensive process with loop pedals [Bolingbroke: Mm-huh], and using their voice to kind of like create worlds. And kind of like opening up the space and allowing for people to enter and for us to experiment together [Bolingbroke: Mmm]. And then a lot of that music then goes into the score of the work [Bolingbroke: Mm-huh]. But then there's other works where you know, we have an idea, we have an idea for a musical concept that will then give space [Bolingbroke: Mm-huh] for the work. So, it's kind of a little bit of like, knowing what the container is, what is the condition? What are we trying to fill? And being flexible with that process.
CHRISTY BOLINGBROKE: Mm-huh. You have a scenic designer that you work very collaboratively with as well. When do you bring excuse me, Neil, into the work?
ANNA THOMPSON: Yeah.
TAYLOR KNIGHT: Yeah. yeah, a lot of the work with Neil kind of starts together. We've kind of had this iterative process. SUPERCELL lives within a trilogy of works that we've been making since 2017. Neil always brings ideas to the table, around how we can use sculpture or use light to again, change the aspects of creating a world, the feeling of time and place. We're always sending Instagram chat, like, look at this, look at this, what if we hung a mirror and spun it at a certain speed and reflected light off of it? [Bolingbroke: Mm-huh] So it feels just very, almost like mad scientist-y together [Bolingbroke: Mmm]. Or we can just throw a lot of ideas on the table. For SUPERCELL specifically, we have been talking about it for a couple years, even working on empathy machine, which we created before, this idea of empathy, empathy machine had this very clean, organized look to the sculpture. And we wanted to create something that took place before that, asking, you know, what if this looked exploded or looked dislocated and was changed? So, it kind of echoes a lot of slowdanger’s, intention of sampling our own process, and being in that iterative [Bolingbroke: Mmm] nature of working. Neil uses a lot of the same materials for pieces that we're working on. And he also does a lot of upcycling, and he makes things on his own. We talked about it yesterday after where we had this desire to want to release fabric from the grid. And we're looking at Kabuki drop systems, and we're seeing the price tags. And we're like, Okay, that's not really, that's not feasible [Bolingbroke: Yeah]. And Neil’s the kind of spirit and energy that's like, I can make that [Bolingbroke: Mm-huh]. And then he'll go home and make some tests. And we'll do beta tests. So, there's a lot of trial and error as most technology explorations are. And sometimes through those failures, we discover things that we, I don't think we had intended on before [Bolingbroke: Mmm]. And I think Neil also carries that spirit of “failure is inevitable.” And it's a huge part of our process together, in discovery. And allowing ourselves to be. And a sense of play and curiosity [Bolingbroke: Mm-huh]. There does come a time in the development where we have to, this is going to be the footprint of the show, of the scene, the scenic design, but I think we've just, you vibe with certain people, and you're kind of on a similar wavelength. And I think Neil really aligns with us [thompson: Yeah], and that sense of exploration and curiosity around how we can make the audience feel something. I almost want the audience to forget that it's a dance piece [Bolingbroke: Hmm], and then just to be inside of this world or this environment. And Neil really brings, brings that to the table.
ANNA THOMPSON: I also think like, as soon as we start to be, like, fixing the process, like making it more kind of consistent, then we all are sitting at the tech table having visions for the next thing [Bolingbroke: Mmm]. Because that's just the way I think the three of our minds work [Bolingbroke speaks simultaneously but her words are muffled] [knight: Yeah]. Okay well, What's the next thing? you know, and that's kind of how our collaboration started was. We were touring with Bill Shannon's Touch Update, and having these conversations about, for Neil, like scenic light ideas, and for us, like, you know, dance pieces that we want to kind of add another kind of world building element to that, that led into empathy machine and vlx. And then while we were touring empathy machine, we started having conversations about SUPERCELL. So, And while we've been making SUPERCELL, we started having conversations about this other piece that we're, that we got to do a little trial run of in January [Bolingbroke: Hmm]. So, it's like we're, I think the three of our minds are just constantly like, churning [Bolingbroke: Mm-huh]. And so, when we are fixed, yeah, when we're fixed on a thing we're like, Hmmm.
CHRISTY BOLINGBROKE: Yeah [Thompson laughs]. Put that in the parking lot.
ANNA THOMPSON: Yeah.
TAYLOR KNIGHT: Exactly.
CHRISTY BOLINGBROKE: I love that it continued you wrenching curiosity, we identified imagination and ongoing way. It is also not easy [knight: No]. And what do you do either individually or together if the creative juices are not coming [thompson: hmm], and you're facing a deadline [thompson: Right], or something, you know, like, how do you find the creative resolve [knight: Sure] when it is not bubbling forth?
ANNA THOMPSON: Right.
TAYLOR KNIGHT: Yeah. I mean, you named it, it is difficult at times, especially when you're feeling the pressure to complete something, or you have a lot on your plate. I think we tend to put too much on our plate, and then reflect back and think, why did we do this to ourselves? But we are in this together in a lot of ways, we spend a lot of time together and share, you know, our entity is co-directed. So, we do have that support system at times [Bolingbroke: Hmmm] to help if one of us is feeling [Bolingbroke: Mm-huh] a certain type of way, can have that reflection. And that discussion. Me personally, sometimes I have to, I think dancers get conditioned in certain ways that require some like unlearning [Bolingbroke: Mm-huh], and some deprogramming. And moving deeper into my 30s, I'm realizing that that work is probably constant, and maybe never, never changes. But I've been trying to remind myself that there's a history, and our bodies is an archive. And I've, there's a lot of things that have occurred to get here. And that should be celebrated alone, whether the piece feels like a success in the way that we intended or not think. I'm trying to allow myself to be an artist, in a sense, where I can explore, I can make messes. Not everything's going to be the masterpiece that's [Bolingbroke: Hmm] finished. I can have a bunch of paintings stacked against the wall that never gets shown [Bolingbroke: Hmm], so to speak. But it is difficult. And sometimes it's hard to get out of that mindset of is it good enough? Why isn't it happening? Why aren't these things and this? And the industry aspects play into that a lot [Bolingbroke: Absolutely]. And I think we're feeling that a lot more these days, with the current projects. But also, during the pandemic, we realized that there was other interests we had [Bolingbroke: Hmm], that kind of weren't necessarily all the way outside of our artistic interest. But other places we could go to kind of deprogram [Bolingbroke: Mm-huh], and take a second to settle, and let those energies relax. And our movement practice together is really important to us [Bolingbroke: Hmm], whether it's our strength training regimens or getting in the studio. Dancing away from the project at times, is really helpful just to kind of get some [thompson: Yeah] of that stuck [Bolingbroke: Hmm] energy out.
ANNA THOMPSON: Yeah, I think also, those are the times where we really resource our community [Bolingbroke: Hmm] [knight: Yeah]. And we started to notice that if we build a community around a work, when we get stuck [Bolingbroke: Hmm], we can kind of reflect on other people [Bolingbroke: Mm-huh] to kind of like help us kind of agitate a certain process or kind of move through that experience of like, stuckness, or [Bolingbroke: Mm-huh] like dissonance or feeling insecure about a certain aspect of the work.
CHRISTY BOLINGBROKE: You don't always have to carry the ball [thompson: Yeah]. You can pass it to other people.
TAYLOR KNIGHT: Yes!
ANNA THOMPSON: Exactly.
TAYLOR KNIGHT: We are learning how to pass the ball.
ANNA THOMPSON: I think it just it kind of happened naturally, during empathy machine, like we had some friends who were doing a residency with a bunch of playwrights and we did an invited showing with this playwright’s residency. And we realized, oh, playwrights have a really amazing and interesting way of viewing dance [Bolingbroke: Hmm]. And we received a lot of responses back that then helped us really like, be like, oh, we know exactly now how to kind of contextualize a certain aspect of this work to take it into its final phase. And we've started building advisory committees around the building of a work [Bolingbroke: Mm-huh], and started that with a collaborative, collaborative process called weighted sky that we worked on with MICHIYAYA Dance and Baltimore based club legend, Abdu Ali. We, where we throughout the whole work had these meetings of like sharing the work having, kind of more open conversations. And then we've taken that model into the building of SUPERCELL, with a interdisciplinary advisory committee [Bolingbroke: Mm-huh] that has met periodically throughout the whole process and seen iterative process showings as well as just had like dream dialogues with. So yeah, that's been huge for us is like, again, realizing I don't have to be the sole mind [Bolingbroke: Hmm]. it actually helps us [Bolingbroke: Mm-huh], to expand it even further. And I think that also like, comes into play with our feeling about accessibility in dance. And feeling like a lot of you know, dance is hard in America. Especially experimental dance [Bolingbroke: Yeah], you know, it's like how do we build a community around a work and also offer multiple entry points into it? [Bolingbroke: Mm-huh] And oftentimes the multidisciplinary approach supports that. But also like, how do I, how do we see dancers almost like the, and the body as the meeting point between people? [Bolingbroke: Hmm] It's something that we all share.
CHRISTY BOLINGBROKE:: The human-ness.
ANNA THOMPSON: Exactly.
CHRISTY BOLINGBROKE: And I say that often about both dance and technology [thompson: Mm-huh]. Like we all have a body [thompson: Yeah]. We, many of us all have a phone. And we don't know how either works [thompson: Yeah] [all three laugh]. Discuss [thompson: Yes, yes]. And, and I appreciate you brought up the accessibility or approachability [both thompson and knight say: Yes] even to dance [thompson: Mm-huh] too [knight: Yes]. I definitely have worked with, with students and audiences. We have a, we love language in dance. And it also maybe is our largest problem sometimes [thompson: Mmm-huh] [knight: Sure]. And I even reflecting since we came into the field as professionals in the aughts [thompson: Yeah], and coming through this, you know, when modern dance was named, it was modern, but it was also the mid-20th century [thompson: Mmm-huh] [knight: Yeah]. Yet we still call it modern dance, you know, 70 years later [thompson: Right[. And then postmodernism evolved [knight: Sure]. And then depending, you know, on, on different pockets of the dance sector, contemporary dance is sometimes referred to as a term. And in my presenting history and experiences, I used to try to explain to audiences that in my perspective, contemporary dance was not a specific form or a technique [thompson: Mm-huh]. It was dance made by people living today [thompson: Yes], it was [knight: Yeah], that is what made it now, a contemporary, instead of fixing it in its own box [thompson: Mm-huh] [knight: Yes]. Which was a big part of why we opened up this platform as “21st-century dance practices” [thompson: Mm-huh] [knight: Yeah]. How, and to not limit it, but to provide more of a range of the spectrum. And you said yes to this invitation. Thank you [knight laughs and says: Yes]. But how would you define 21st-century dance practices? [Both thompson and knight say: Hmm] And also, maybe, relate to your work? [thompson: Yeah] You've used other terms like experimental [thompson: Mm-huh]. And so, I'd love to hear what are the words you'd like to use [thompson: Yeah] to define your work under this large, vague umbrella?
ANNA THOMPSON: Yeah. That's a great question. I think also what I recognize is like 21st-century dance practices is really allowing for people to bring their whole history into the room. And I see that amongst our peers, and this kind of ever, like, murky soup of like [Bolingbroke: Hmm], what is the discipline anymore, which is, I celebrate entirely, you know. It's like, I think the future is like, anti-disciplinary as Golan Levin would call it, like queer and intersectional. And like, I think that that is what I feel [Bolingbroke: Hmm] in the kind of percolating community, and also, like, within the kind of way we want to make our work is like, we don't have a fixed movement technique [Bolingbroke: Mm-huh] for each piece. The, the work brings forth what that physicality might be [Bolingbroke: Hmm], what that expression of the world might be. And I think that, for me, that's kind of, I think, the way that I use, utilize my techniques [Bolingbroke: Mm-huh]. You know, as a dancer, I was trained to be a chameleon. Sometimes I would say, even a dance machine [Bolingbroke: Mm-huh]. Like I could embody a thing that was given to me and try to express it very specifically. And then how, I asked myself in the choreographic process, How do I still resource that? [Bolingbroke: Hmm] And I think that's in the sense of like, embodied states, as it pertains to the work that we're making, and also like, as it pertains to the way that we're colliding disciplines together [Bolingbroke: Mm-huh]. SUPERCELL, especially being the work that we've made that has the most language in it [Bolingbroke: Mmm]. And working with Nile Harris as a collaborator to kind of like, explode like what a script could be [Bolingbroke: Mm-huh]. And how we can improvisationally script aspects [Bolingbroke: Mm-huh] of the work through also like specific language containers. And language becoming another material [Bolingbroke: Mm-huh] in the work, in addition to the scenic design and the lighting and the, [Bolingbroke: The movement], the music and the movement. You know, it's like how are we just like, setting place [Bolingbroke: Mm-huh] from all of the histories of collaborators in the room? And also being very aware that we're not trying to appropriate [Bolingbroke: Mmm] that. Like being in conversation with our collaborators in that developmental process about like, what, and I think it came up when we know that this piece is going to have a longer lifecycle. So, there is the potential that more people might enter the process that didn't originate material. So, what stays with the person [Bolingbroke: Mmm], and leaves [Bolingbroke: Mm-huh] when they have to leave the performance process? And what elements of the ethos continues?
CHRISTY BOLINGBROKE: Mm-huh. You brought up anti-disciplinary [thompson: Yeah]. It makes me also think of anti-repertory [thompson: Yeah]. A lot of 20th-century dance companies, you know, Alvin Ailey is still performing repertory from the 1950s and 60s [thompson: Yeah]. And, and you can see different dancers through the ages performing those works [thompson: Yeah]. But the work is still like something that people can repeat over time [knight: Yeah] [thompson: Mmm-huh]. But the way that you're describing it, it seems like how can this be performed more than just a handful of times? [knight: Yes] Continue to live on but make space for the new bodies to come.
TAYLOR KNIGHT: Yes.
ANNA THOMPSON: Yeah, absolutely.
TAYLOR KNIGHT: I think for us a large part of that, and something that I am seeing in a lot of 21st-century dance practices is the demystification of a dance process [Bolingbroke: Hmm]. And the idea of creating, I feel like more, traditionally, audiences show up to the theater and they see the piece and then it vanishes, and they're left with whatever they're taking with them that memory, that visceral connection [Bolingbroke: You work in ephemera]. Yeah [Bolingbroke: Absolutely]. And I think something that's been really exciting about a lot of work that folks are doing, and something we've been intending, with SUPERCELL, is this idea of how do we bring the community in? How do the community members become stakeholders in the process of the development of the piece? [Bolingbroke: Hmm] How can we open up the box and show them what we're considering? And what goes into it? It's not this. I'm a dancer, and I have this language that nobody else understands, so watch me deliver [Bolingbroke: Mmm-huh]. Like how do we, how do we break through that and, and create this shared language of understanding and intentionality behind a work, and getting multiple truths and how people are interpreting it, how it's landing with them? So, for us that's extended into workshops. There's not a large class-taking culture in Pittsburgh [Bolingbroke: Hmm]. There's definitely some pockets. But there's a really buzzing community of non-dance folks that want to come and have an embodied practice [Bolingbroke: Mm-huh]. And we've been developing our own kind of open-level workshops for almost a decade now. And some of those folks are still very much connected to our work. And through SUPERCELL, we had a workshop series called “Demystifying the Box” [Bolingbroke: Hmm], where part of the workshop was a movement practice, kind of outside of the traditional tendu, plié, dégagé dance class, and more finding states of being, finding somatic responses, allowing folks to unlock their bodies [Bolingbroke: Mmm]. And also having a discussion at the end around, we just did a lot of nonverbal work together. Let's be verbal, and let's talk about what was the challenge what came up for them what's landing? And that's something that we really connect to in our process of making as well, which has led us to having advisory committees [Bolingbroke: Mm-huh]. And SUPERCELL [Bolingbroke: Expanding your community]. Expanding it [Bolingbroke: Yeah]. I think if we only look at art, we wanted to decentralize our perspectives as like the creators and [Bolingbroke: Mm-huh] idea holders of the work. I think sometimes in dance, there's this narrative of like, there's the central genius that's like the driving force [Bolingbroke: Mm-huh] behind everything. And I think there's so many folks that make those things come to life and inspirations [thompson: Mm-huh]. And it's been important for us to hold, stand in our truth of what we're trying to do and our intention, but we're just two people [thompson: Yeah] [Bolingbroke: Hmm]. And how is that landing with other folks, not just in our local Pittsburgh community, but like the discussion we had yesterday, that's really the rich [Bolingbroke: Mm-huh] research that we…
CHRISTY BOLINGBROKE: I mean, you talked about a shared embodied practice as an invitation, but it's, it truly centralizes like, how do you create an experience? [knight: Yes] [thompson: Mm-huh] Which is very different from the passive, I'm going to perform my art for you now [knight: Exactly. Yeah, yeah], and you're going to receive it and acknowledge my genius [Both thompson and knight say: Yeah]. But rather that invitation to be like, oh, [knight: yeah], come into my space [thompson: Absolutely] into my home.
TAYLOR KNIGHT: Yeah. And if, I feel like if folks maybe have an entry point into sensing their own embodiment [Bolingbroke: Mm-huh], and their somatic arrivals [Bolingbroke: The reminder that they have a body] [thompson: Mm-huh]. They have that. So, when they're viewing something that may be sparked some of that, I wonder if that connects them to dance, they feel the dance in a different way or it expands the way they're able to tune into it [Bolingbroke: Mm-huh].
ANNA THOMPSON: And I think also, like, drawing on the sense of our advisory committee member, Michelle King gave us this word. She's always like, bringing amazing words into the meetings that we have. But “scenius,” which is kind of a collective genius [knight: Yeah] [Bolingbroke: Hmm] that gets like shared, and kind of like develops over the kind of webs of relationships and minds that collide with each other. And I think that's also why we describe slowly injuries like an organism or an entity because I, I don't want it to feel like it's like taylor and anna dance, you know, or taylor and anna performance projects, you know. It's like, it feels like something, both of us and also something that's shared between us [Bolingbroke: Mm-huh. And…] And is larger than us now [Bolingbroke: Yeah]. Yeah, exactly.
CHRISTY BOLINGBROKE: I love that you brought in your advisory committee, and you know, sharing even just a taste of [thompson: Yeah], a small glimpse at how they contribute and what they share [thompson: Mm-huh]. My last question: Would love to have each of you share a piece of advice that you have either received are you want to make one up on the spot for our students something about navigating this creative life.
ANNA THOMPSON: Mmm. I need to sit with that one.
TAYLOR KNIGHT: I mean, I’m trying to just go with what immediately came up, which is a colleague of ours, and an artist that inspires us a lot, who has, I think, made their way through here, Jesse Factor [Bolingbroke: Mm-huh]. I was having a really hard day at school one time, teaching, and we pass each other in the stairs. And it's a very brief: [couple of muffled words] see you later. And he stopped. And for some reason that day, he said, Don't, we have to remember not to abandon ourselves [Bolingbroke: Hmm]. And that was something that hit really heavy that day, which is difficult to do. I'm not always successful in that. But that reminder alone of, I think sometimes I can get caught up in the hustle [Bolingbroke: Hmm]. Because there is a lot of work outside of just doing the performing and choreographing part that can be really difficult and exhausting. And the burnout train can approach really quickly. It looks like it's far away. But then all of a sudden, it's right there, [Bolingbroke: Mm-huh. Running you over]. Running you over, and it's too late to make the changes. And you've already committed and you're booked years out. So, you're like, Okay, we're just, we're on the ride. And so, I remember Jesse's sentiments of don't abandon yourself though. And I don't always know what that means in the moment. So, it's easier to extend the advice for me than to take it but that's what immediately came up [thompson: Mmm] [Bolingbroke: Thank you].
ANNA THOMPSON: Definitely, I'm reminded of a workshop that we took at the last Lion Jaw in 2019, from Jeremy Toussaint-Baptise [knight: Mmm], and it was a workshop on failure [Bolingbroke: Hmm]. And also, like extending the ethos of like, the queer art of failure, and recontextualizing failure as an essential part of a process, and a central part of your becoming, as an artist and a person [Bolingbroke: Hmm]. You know, and I think I'm in therapy [Both thompson and Bolingbroke laugh]. I'm doing EMDR, which has been great [Bolingbroke: Okay]. And it's really all about reprocessing embodied experiences, I think of, for me, like rooted in that feeling of like, what is, what do I identify as failure? And actually, realizing how much it's taught me over my life. And like decon, like, taking out the shame aspect of it. And like examining that too. I think that like failure is an incredible teacher. And also, like, when you invite it in as a part of a process, it becomes more fun [laughs].
CHRISTY BOLINGBROKE: Hmmm. Making failure fun.
ANNA THOMPSON and TAYLOR KNIGHT: Yes,exactly.
ANNA THOMPSON: You know, we everybody loves cringe culture now [Both thompson and Bolingbroke laugh]. You know, like, I think there's also been like, another generational aspect and the ethos of like, social media and like, like, people really craving a more authentic expression of self [Bolingbroke: Mmm-huh]. And I think that also comes with like looking internally and like, being like, what parts of me do I not allow or do I not invite into the room or do I not share with other people?
CHRISTY BOLINGBROKE: Or it's not about trying to forget it as quickly as possible [thompson: Exactly] by putting it out of your mind [thompson:Yeah]. Wait, is there anything I want to learn from that [thompson: Right] and carry forward? [thompson: Yeah]. Okay. Awesome.
OUTRODUCTION: Inside The Dancer’s Studio Live Series is supported by NCCAkron, the University of Akron, the University of Akron Foundation and the Mary Schiller Myers Lecture Series in the Arts. Our podcast program is produced by Jennifer Edwards. James Sleeman is our editor. Theme music by Floco Torres, cover art by Micah Kraus. Special thanks to the team on the ground in Akron, Ohio. To learn more about NCCAkron, please visit us online at NCCakron.org. And follow us on Instagram or Facebook at NCCAkron. We hope you enjoyed this episode, and we encourage you to subscribe on your favorite podcast streaming platform by searching for Inside The Dancer’s Studio. Please share with your friends and if you’d like to help get the word out rate us and leave a review on Apple podcasts. Thanks for listening and stay curious.