In this episode, NCCAkron's Executive/Artistic Director, Christy Bolingbroke, enters the 'studio' with Atlanta, Georgia-based George Staib, choreographer and artistic director of staibdance. Dance Teacher Magazine has recognized Staib as one of the “top five” dance educators in the US, and he has been commissioned as a teacher and choreographer for over 25 institutions. He is currently on the dance faculty at Emory University.
[Music Begins]
Jennifer Edwards: Thanks for joining us Inside the Dancer’s Studio, where we bring listeners like you closer to the creative process. Inside The Dancer’s Studio is a program of the National Center for Choreography in Akron, Ohio. This podcast was recorded as an ongoing documentation practice with NCC Akron visiting artists in 2024 and 2025. In this episode, NCC Akron's Executive/Artistic Director, Christy Bolingbroke, enters the 'studio' with Atlanta, Georgia-based George Staib, choreographer and Artistic Director of Staib Dance. Dance Teacher Magazine has recognized Staib as one of the top 5 dance educators in the U.S., and he has been commissioned as a teacher and choreographer for over 25 institutions. He is currently on the dance faculty at Emory University.
Christy Bolingbroke: I am curious, particularly because as someone who started working in the field before the end of the last century (Staib: That’s right) and then the longevity to today, what does 21st century dance practices mean to you?
George Staib: The conversation we had a while ago about, uh, working under people, single name choreographers who had a company, whether it's Paul Taylor, José Limón, all that stuff (Bolingbroke: Mm-hmm), which is my background. And I thought, uh, this is fascinating. I worked with people who had access to the horse's mouth, so to speak. But I, I'd always been interested in what else, what's next? Is there a way to evolve a thing and is there sort of cache in reinventing oneself over and over and over? And I thought, Yes, there is something valuable about that. I fear the mundane, I fear boring people (Bolingbroke: Mmm). And I although I personally don't get bored so easily, I'm curious about what's next. And so if I were to assess 21st century dance practices, it really does move away from a singular, autonomous creator, crafter. To me, the joy lies in collaboration, which is very much, uh, misaligned with the way I used to work or what I used to know. Um, with Limón work, there's one way to do it and the only way to do it is the way Ann Vachon would tell us to do it (Bolingbroke: Mm-hmm). And it was gospel. But there's something really magnificent in terms of the diversity of the types of dancers that I encounter. The diversity of the training that they're embarking upon that I think can fuel almost anything that happens, choreographically (Bolingbroke: Mm). So it's saying yes to all of those things as opposed to carving something out that's a bit more rigid.
Did that make sense? (Bolingbroke: It) there's clarity in my head, but maybe did…
Christy Bolingbroke: It totally makes sense. And I, and I'll Yes, and or add to, because I know a big part of your practice, you work in higher ed.
George Staib: I do.
Christy Bolingbroke: And NCC Akron's, uh, adjacency to higher ed, uh, here on the University of Akron campus and getting to bring artists like yourself to teach, is to show the students that there's more than the binary ballet or modern.
George Staib: Completely.
Christy Bolingbroke: So that's my kind of follow up question is in this idea of 21st century dance practices, and with all that you've seen as well as what you know the body can do, what does virtuosity look like on your terms?
George Staib: Oh, you know, I wonder if it's something as I'd thought about that if it's something that you can actually see from a dancer or something that you intuit (Bolingbroke: Hmm. Say more), because on one hand (Bolingbroke: Yeah). So the inclination towards virtuosity to me suggests that I don't have to only be this one thing. I don't need to lead with this technique. I can keep something in my back pocket, hide it, shield it, and reveal it gradually. So there are, of course, people kick their face and their bun and their ears. That's great.
Christy Bolingbroke: Mm-hmm.
George Staib: When they lead with that, and that's the thing that they are about, I find it, that's talent, but I don't know if it's virtuosity.
Christy Bolingbroke: Mm.
George Staib: I'm curious about the, what else of the stuff that I don't see that the person doesn't necessarily need to use the fancy stuff as their mode MO.
Christy Bolingbroke: Yeah (Staib: Yeah). Almost that, um, restraint (Staib: Yeah) is virtuous.
George Staib: Think so. Yeah. And if it's about, if you are charging yourself with, be messy, be all messy, completely messy. And then you can pull back, I think.
Christy Bolingbroke: Mm-hmm. We were also talking, I mean, certainly enjoy geeking out on the business of dance.
George Staib: Yeah.
Christy Bolingbroke: And, and you were talking about the need for longer term planning and visioning, so, (Staib: Yeah) in, in trying to navigate those sort of resources, what inspires you? Like where do you start?
George Staib: Some of the most recent work that Staib Dance has [done is rooted in Middle Eastern culture. But I'm also interested in the way people interact with one another. I read a lot of philosophy and one thing that sticks out in my mind is Plato saying one part of the world does not hate the other (Bolingbroke: Hmm). They're only invested in self-protection. So that in some ways is fuel as well. I'm like, self-protection can look like a volatile act against somebody else, but are you protecting the self? Are you protecting an idea? So these kind of conundrums fuel a lot of the work that we do, 'cause it could be firmly one thing or firmly another.
Christy Bolingbroke: I am with you.
George Staib: Because ultimately, I'm with Oh, you are? Okay. So it's that the way people exchange time together is fascinating to me (Bolingbroke: Hmm), which I love a good duet and I love the tension that exists between two bodies, whether they are lovers or enemies, because there's still some sort of connection there. And love and hate can sometimes look the same because it bring you to the same sort of physical response (Bolingbroke: Hmm) or something that looks similar and I'm curious about that.
Christy Bolingbroke: But then it, it's, it's all the different elements to talk about which tools you're using (Staib: Oh) 'cause it's context.
George Staib: It is, yeah.
Christy Bolingbroke: And I, And I've gotten to see some of your work live and it is beautifully designed and very full. This is not a, a lights and tights (Staib laughs), you know, (Staib: True. Yeah) minimalist approach, for anyone who hasn't gotten to see (Staib: Yeah) Staib Dance. So I'm curious, what do you look for in a collaborator to help you (Staib: Oh) fill in some of those edges?
George Staib: You know, I wonder if it's almost depositing too much responsibility on a collaborator, because at this point in my career, and I'll get to the question, I really love responding to something that someone else has.
Christy Bolingbroke: Mm. (Because when). Well, you expect them to bring something.
George Staib: Yeah. Because there is a, a thing where you can want, a singular person can generate a lot of ideas and then demand others to respond. If I drop a seed to a collaborator and they start to run down an alley that I'd never considered, that's exciting to me because (Bolingbroke: Mm) I think, how can we merge these two things together? And I'm reminded of a, an interview that Trisha Brown did many, many years ago on an NPR thing, for instance. And she had put a coffee mug and a, a pen and an apple on the desk. And she's like, See, these things don't go together. And then she took a moment, she's like, Oh, maybe they do. And it's really fun to find ways that somebody is asserting their ideas to fold it into mine. So I think, their openness, their own willingness to expand and break their own parameters or their own boundaries is something that draws me (Bolingbroke: Mm-hmm) to a collaborator.
Christy Bolingbroke: It, you are reminding me and this may be stating the obvious for those on the inside, but if, if people are less familiar with concert dance, the reality that it's always so fresh in a blank page (Staib: Yeah). And by that I mean it's very different than maybe in a play where you get a script and a collaborator, you know, has a pretty clear map as far as like who the characters are and what it is, but you're really making it up, as you go (Staib: That's so true), you know, in dance. And so there is a certain openness that you need that curiosity and someone who isn't just looking to be told what to do.
George Staib: Yeah. Christy, you're making me think of something I don't know that I've ever thought about before. Growing up, I was so enamored with TV and movies, like Dallas (Bolingbroke: Mm-hmm) and JR, I would lock myself into this fantasy. Or when I'm wearing headphones, I'm walking around campus and I'm making my own movie (Bolingbroke: Mm-hmm). And it's so intoxicating and I think, how is it possible to do that on a stage? For people to funnel their attention in such a way that they feel as though they're inside of the thing as well, rather than distantly observing. And I think if a collaborator can help us get there, to create this world that you don't observe but you inhabit as well, and kind of lose yourself in some weird fantasy for a while (Bolingbroke: Yeah), that's provocative. And maybe it just answer is that sort of like, Oh, I'm king of the world, 8-year-old George, sort of thing, or but yeah…
Christy Bolingbroke: Well, it's, it's something that's really interesting. You brought up TV and that that can be very two dimensional (Staib: Mm-hmm). And particularly with live performing arts in competition for audience attention (Staib: Yeah), when they can stay home and stream something, this is an invitation that is more complete. Definitely, I mean, I got to see your work performed um, our at in Emory in Atlanta (Staib: That’s right. Yeah). And I, you know, was describing because of the, like set design, it, it was just at the edge of where the audience sat. We were almost inside that world.
George Staib: Oh, that's true. Yeah.
Christy Bolingbroke: So when you're talking about like the, the sort of wholeness of inhabiting that and looking for collaborators, it will also go on that journey with you, um, without trying to say like, Oh, we're creating an immersive, or, and I did that with air quotes because that can be very, like…
George Staib: People use that word for everything.
Christy Bolingbroke: Yes.
George Staib: I think restaurants are immersive now. I…
Christy Bolingbroke: Okay, there we go. Oh okay. Because you didn't make it at home, it's immersive.
George Staib: Yeah, exactly. My laundry room is immersive because I'm interacting with the dryer or something.
Christy Bolingbroke: Right (Laughs)
George Staib: So, yeah.
Christy Bolingbroke: But, how would you describe your relationship to music? Because we definitely have uh, a lot of our, our university dance students who maybe will, were sort of catered to a top 40, the latest Taylor Swift album (Staib: Mm-hmm). Whatever may be coming, that's all they know. (Staib: Right). And, uh then as you continue to develop a voice, what choices have you made as far as how and when you engage a sound score?
George Staib: I'm sure staunch choreographers who reject the notion that music can make or break a thing. But I, I'm gonna go on, I’ll on a limb and say, I think it can make or break a dance (Bolingbroke: Hmm). And I look for this sort of relationship between the moving body and the sound. Sometimes if you're conscientious, you can be seduced by the sound. Sometimes you can oppose it, sometimes you can have dialogue with it. And I think these are all such subtleties that I don't know that I could ever teach (Bolingbroke: Hmm). You're just kind of feel it and it works. That's the way (Bolingbroke: Hmm) to create a world or a fantasy or connect to a feeling that is evocative of a different time or nostalgia. I've seen many dances change dramatically simply by shifting the score (Bolingbroke: Mm-hmm). It's such an exciting exercise. Very lucky now because I used to have to, uh, sift through many, many different sounds. But with the, um, company, now we have a, a composer who works with us (Bolingbroke: Uhh) who's a pretty exciting digital sound artist.
Christy Bolingbroke: You said it, it's something that you don't know that you can teach (Staib: Mm-hmm), So, how would you describe or talk about, what do you look for in a dancer?
George Staib: Oh, in a dancer? Hmm. I think a dancer who's holding onto a secret when they're performing is really exciting. Also a dancer's really willing to kind of, you say vomit on a pot (Bolingbroke laughs). Like vomit the essence of who they are into the space and let it all go. Dancers who can push a button and be in a different state of mind or a different being (Bolingbroke: Hmm) without worrying about transitioning from point A to point B. There are movies that I'll sign up for that are two hours long where basically nothing happens and it's a slow evolution of a thing, and I'm always there for it. Sometimes it's a little bit challenging to encounter that, for me personally, in a dance space (Bolingbroke Mm). Because I don't know that, I'm not sure really where to focus, so (Bolingbroke Mm-hmm) so I, my personal preference is to keep throwing something new here and there to keep the senses alive (Bolingbroke: Mm). And if a dancer can do that, and shapeshift a bit, not saying change who you are, but how you might deliver a thing, I'm intrigued (Bolingbroke: Yeah). Tell me more.
Christy Bolingbroke: Well, there's something, hearing you talk about that reminds me when I've been able to experience the entirety of one of your works. There's a lot of texture in it.
George Staib: Ah, okay. Yeah.
Christy Bolingbroke: Um, whereas I would say there, you know, particularly in, in hierarchical forms like ballet, there's a certain predictability in the form of the evening (Staib: Yeah) that you're like, and here's the big group opening, and here we're gonna do a solo and here we're gonna do a trio. And here we're, and (Staib: Mm-hmm). While you, you, you definitely enjoy a good duet (Staib: Yeah. I do), and lots of different tools and things. It is that always keep 'em guessing, that that adds more of a texture that you're like, I don't know (Staib: Yeah) where we're gonna go next. I hear, so much of the responsibility that you're holding (Staib: Yeah) Mm-hmm). It's not just the sort of narcissism of, I like to make a work, I'm gonna make a work (Staib: Oh, yeah). But you know, you're like, Oh, this, this is almost like a social contract with your audience (Staib: Yes. So true), with your collaborators. Amid all of that responsibility and deadlines, what do you do if you just hit a dead end, right? Like the motivation (Staib: Oh, creatively?) Creatively the motivation's not happening. But you've got, you know, eight dancers in the room that are looking to you for (Staib: Oh yeah) what's next.
George Staib: If there's a moment that we created in the studio, and I don't know that I'm so into it, I think, well, maybe I just have to look more closely at it and pull it apart even more (Bolingbroke: Hmm). So that is one thing, as opposed to running away from it (Bolingbroke: Mm-hmm). It's like rummaging through the junk drawer. Maybe there's something else that (Bolingbroke: Hmm). And likewise, um, a former rehearsal director once said, just go back to the mission of the work. What is it that we're trying to do? (Bolingbroke: Mm-hmm) Because I can easily, easily get derailed (Bolingbroke: Mm-hmm), and go to the opposite extreme. Just go to something that is so perversely different from what it is that I'm working on to see well, maybe there's an answer in the opposing idea. Just to open a different door and see if there can be a tie in.
Christy Bolingbroke: Mm-hmm. What has continued to be a part of our conversation is this different ways of pushing curiosity, not just for curiosity's sake, but just kind of going like, what else?
George Staib: What else?
Christy Bolingbroke: where, you know, what else can I go inside of that? Um, as opposed to, well, that's not working and (Staib: Mm-hmm) and scrubbing it all and starting over (Staib: Yeah). I am curious in the scope of your process, when and how do you name a piece?
George Staib: I prefer to find titles that can be several things at once. And I know maybe to my own disservice, sometimes people won't, won't know why I’ve chosen it. But there's also a door for somebody to figure something out and adopt it on their own. This new work for the longest time was called “Cosm,” and I hated that title. I just came up because cosmopolitan or like microcosm, let's just do that and see. But then even the collaborators are like, George, what is that? I don't know. I just. So did a little bit more digging into something that might align thematically. And hence the new title is between Dog and Wolf. (Bolingbroke: Hm). And so um it's a French idiom, so people don't necessarily have to know what that means. They can conjure up their own sort of situation (Bolingbroke: Mm-hmm). So sometimes I'll land on a title and think, Oh, I just want to work from how it feels or how it looks on paper. Maybe that's really woo-woo to say. But, um…
Christy Bolingbroke: It's not woo-woo at all (Staib laughs). I really appreciate you describing it as a door, as a way in (Staib: Yeah.) And not everyone walks through the doors (Staib: No). Right? Some people explore all the edges of the door, (Staib: Yeah. Christy) some people are on the outside of it. Yeah.
George Staib: I've heard ACDA adjudicators (Bolingbroke: Mm-hmm). American College Dance Association, who will look at a title and then define it before they give feedback on a piece, but I guess that's a, a way to navigate it.
Christy Bolingbroke: There, there's so much agency (Staib: Yes) for our audience and viewers (Staib: Mm-hmm) and the title is just one piece of information (Staib: It is, yeah). Um, you know, I, I think it's a harder lift, but I am sure that I have seen a show where the artist was like, I will tell you the title afterwards (Laughs).
George Staib: Okay. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And that makes some people angry and other people love it (Bolingbroke: Right). Some don't want to know a thing.
Christy Bolingbroke: Yeah, I know. Definitely, when I lived in New York, uh, I wouldn't read the program until I was on my way home after a show. It, it was kind of a ritual (Staib: Yeah). That's very hard to do when you have to drive home though (Staib: Oh, yeah) (Both laugh) (Staib: It is so, it's so true). I have so many programs in my car (Staib: Don't read and drive) (Both continue to laugh).
George Staib: Yeah. When I, it's never got read. Yeah. It reminds me when I was in Israel and it took my sabbatical there. I went to performances maybe five times a week, but don't speak Hebrew, don't read the language. So it was this really wonderful mystery that I was inside of, and it was only me. Only these dancers, sometimes speaking Hebrew, sometimes not, and I just had full creative license to absorb however I wanted without any parameters. And it was (Bolingbroke: Mm-hmm) really cool. I didn't feel anxious, like I didn't get it. What, what were they trying to say?
Christy Bolingbroke: I mean, I think that, that, that speaks a lot for why you chosen this path and found your way in dance (Staib: Hmm). Not everyone is comfortable with the, the uncertainty (Staib: That's so true). And some look for the like, I wanna make sure I got it (Staib: Yeah). And they're used to just solving for it. And yeah.
George Staib: That's sad because, well, not sad, that could be a choice, so I really do love the, Oh, is it this or, I mean, people go nuts for that movie Inception or the thing (Bolingbroke: Oh, yes). They don't know if the thing topples over or not (Bolingbroke: Mm-hmm). And it could be frustrating, but they still talk about it as opposed to tidying it up and putting it away in a package.
Christy Bolingbroke: Yeah. We like those kinds of surprises.
George Staib: We do. Yeah.
Christy Bolingbroke: Yeah. I, It's been such a delight to get to go a little deeper with you.
George Staib: So fun.
Christy Bolingbroke: I have one last question.
George Staib: Yeah.
Christy Bolingbroke: Question is for you to either share a, a great piece of advice that has continued to serve you or offer your own piece of advice (Staib: Yeah) to anyone who's considering the navigation of a creative career.
George Staib: My first dance teacher, Christine Vilardo, when I was choreographing, I get so frantic about getting something out there and she's like, George, a good idea we'll keep, and it's probably a seed (Bolingbroke: Mm). And as you and I were talking about yesterday, is something that there's an eagerness to have things right away. And now that I'm (gibberigsh) years old, I just realize I'm so grateful for that bit of advice. The notion of I, I didn't even know a seed was planted, but the fruit of it is occurring now, and the gift of patience, which that instilled, something we'll keep, if it's meant to blossom it'll happen, a good idea will keep.
Jennifer Edwards: Inside the Dancer’s Studio Conversation Series is produced by NCC Akron and supported in part by the University of Akron, the University of Akron Foundation, the Mary Schiller Myers Lecture Series in the Arts, and Audio-Technica, a global audio manufacturer with U.S. headquarters in Northeast Ohio. Our podcast program is produced by Lisa Niedermeyer of Handmade Future Studio. Rahsaan Cruz is our audio engineer, with transcription by Arushi Singh, theme music by Floco Torres, and cover art by Micah Kraus. Special thanks to Laura Ellacott, Sarah Durham, Christi Welter, Nakiasha Moore-Dunson, and Dante Fields. To learn more about NCC Akron, please visit us online at nccakron.org. And follow us on Instagram or Facebook at NCC Akron. We hope you enjoyed this episode, and we encourage you to subscribe on your favorite podcast streaming platform by searching for Inside the Dancer’s Studio. Thanks for listening and stay curious.