In this episode, NCCAkron's Executive/Artistic Director, Christy Bolingbroke enters the 'studio' with New York City-based performer and educator Courtney Lopes. Born and raised in Bermuda, Courtney trained at The University of North Carolina School of the Arts for high school and went on to receive her BFA in Dance from SUNY Purchase. She now dances with Dance Heginbotham, MeenMoves, Sue Bernhard Danceworks, Kathryn Alter & Dancers, and Megan Williams Dance Projects and is a professor at Rutgers University’s Mason Gross School of the Arts. Courtney is also trained in Dance for PD, a specialized dance class series for people living with Parkinson’s Disease, which she enjoys sharing with communities across the US and around the world.
In this episode, NCCAkron's Executive/Artistic Director, Christy Bolingbroke enters the 'studio' with New York City-based performer and educator Courtney Lopes. Born and raised in Bermuda, Courtney trained at The University of North Carolina School of the Arts for high school and went on to receive her BFA in Dance from SUNY Purchase. She now dances with Dance Heginbotham, MeenMoves, Sue Bernhard Danceworks, Kathryn Alter & Dancers, and Megan Williams Dance Projects and is a professor at Rutgers University’s Mason Gross School of the Arts. Courtney is also trained in Dance for PD, a specialized dance class series for people living with Parkinson’s Disease, which she enjoys sharing with communities across the US and around the world.
INTRODUCTION:Thanks for joining us Inside The Dancer’s Studio, where we bring listeners like you closer to the creative process. Inside The Dancer’s Studio is a program of the National Center for Choreography at the University of Akron as part of our Ideas and Motion initiative. This episode was recorded in the presence of a live audience in the spring of 2022. Today we joined Christy Bolingbroke, our Executive/ Artistic Director, in conversation with New York City-based performer and educator Courtney Lopes. Born and raised in Bermuda, Courtney trained at the University of North Carolina School of the Arts for high school, and went on to receive her BFA in Dance from SUNY Purchase. She now dances with Dance Heginbotham, MeenMoves, Susan Bernhard Danceworks, Kathryn Alter & Dancers, and Megan Williams Dance Projects. And she's a Professor at Rutgers University's Mason Gross School of the Arts. Courtney is also trained in Dance for PD, a specialized dance class series for people living with Parkinson's disease, which she enjoys sharing with communities across the US and around the world.
CHRISTY BOLINGBROKE: I'm wondering if you might share, how did you know you wanted to be a dancer or to be an artist? Is there a particular moment, an “aha,” that you knew you were going to go on that path?
COURTNEY LOPES: Yeah, actually, there was. I was about seven years old. That sounds crazy, but I was that young and I took my first modern dance class, and they were like, rolling around on the floor. We were barefoot, there were like, no rules, you know, it was very much: We're just going to move together. Ideas in motion, you know. It was very much like that. And the teacher was just guiding us through this class. But it wasn't as strict as ballet or tap or anything, and I was like, “This is what I'm gonna do forever,” you know. And so I was I was like seven turning eight that year. And I just remember that was the moment and then I didn't enjoy the other dance styles as much. So then I found out I had to do ballet. And I thought, maybe this isn't it anymore. (Bolingbroke: “Okay, crisis of confidence”). Yes, very much so. And I, once I got over that, I was like, “Okay, this is it.” And then at fourteen, I had the opportunity to go to North Carolina, to go study at University of North Carolina School of the Arts. And then that was like, really it. I got to meet all the, I mean, I had, I had no idea there were so many people who were interested in dance in the world, like honestly, I didn't know who Alvin Ailey was like, I didn't know who anybody was at this point. And I was a teenager. And I just like, got into this, like art world. And I was like, “wow, this is where I belong.” And I'm from Bermuda, which is so small. Very different now than what it was when I was fourteen. But very island- minded. That's like a real thing. (Bolingbroke: “Yeah”). So to see something that was completely the opposite of that, I was like, “Okay, we're coming.” (Bolingbroke: “Yeah”). So then I auditioned in, well I auditioned, I didn't get in. That's the actual moment. That is literally the one moment where I was like, “This is not happening. I'm going, you know, we're doing this.” So I just went for the summer. And I started three weeks later, moved to North Carolina, and then that was it. Like, that was literally it. That was my moment. I guess there's like three moments.
CHRISTY BOLINGBROKE: Well, I, but you know, not to imply that it's a linear, right. And it's certainly navigating a creative career is not so easy that you just decide, and it happens, right? But that I like to say it's a choose your own adventure. (Lopes: “one hundred percent”). But that means you're constantly being questioned and having to make choices, as opposed to there are some other fields and jobs that are a little bit more predictable. (Lopes: “Yeah”). And so I appreciate that you've on to choreograph and navigate that yourself. (Lopes: “Yeah, yeah”). I mean, after having that introduction, in your teen years, now as a working professional, and you dance for multiple artists, what do you look for in a choreographer or in a potential project?
COURTNEY LOPES: I think, I don't know. I think that's also changing a lot for me, especially now the older I'm getting. In the beginning, you know, I went to SUNY Purchase for college and I graduated and I was like, “I'm just gonna take any job I can get.” (Bolingbroke: “Right, that's real”). That's real, paid or not paid, you do it. And I did that for like, maybe two and a half years. And I realized like, “okay, no, this is not happening anymore.” You know, like you really you start to figure it out. And then I was like interested in styles of dance, like very into Limón. Like, that was my thing. So I was really reaching out to choreographers and teachers that I had had in the past who, they were making work that was in that kind of style. So in the beginning, it was more about what, like what I want to be performing. You know like very emotional, fluid dancing. And then I met John Heginbotham actually, like after my two years of just choosing people that I thought I would enjoy performing there, that's literally it, nothing about their choreography, other than the movement itself. (Bolingbroke: “Okay”). Then I met John. And it was a complete opposite of that. It was super musical, It was really technical, like fast, sharp. I actually taught the piece here while I was at Akron. I taught the piece that I learned and it was like very different, and made me so uncomfortable. Because I had no idea how to like act, quote, unquote, act on stage. Or I was just scared to I guess. And I think that was when I realized I wanted to work with choreographers who just challenged me like, honestly challenged me and who gave me information that I wasn't used to, if that makes sense? And just yeah, I don't know, it was so foreign to my body to move in this way that it was the best thing that ever happened to me, you know. Like you get used to the same stuff all the time. And you think you love this thing, and then you try something new. And you're like, “Wait, this is this just keeps getting better.”
CHRISTY BOLINGBROKE: Yeah. I mean, you remarked a couple times how your own response to the field is changing as you as you age. But I think what you've also tapped on is how the labor force is changing, whether you're going to be a dancer, or you're going to go work at a bank. I think people don't work with the same organization for 20 or 30 years anymore, because they want that challenge (Lopes: “Right”). They want to feel that they're somehow advancing and moving along and trying new things that can be exciting. Not everyone. But a lot of the workforce. I think certainly looking for that beyond a paycheck as well. In the spirit of things changing, so during COVID Dance Heginbotham embarked on a project called 24 Caprices, and this was in response to violin theories of Caprice by Paganini. And John, not knowing how long the pandemic would go on said, “I'm going to make a dance for all 24 of these songs.” And I think they're up to seven or eight now. (Lopes: “No, eight. Yeah, yeah”). And one of them you made, is these were also made on video. And you made a Caprice at your dad's party store in Bermuda. (Lopes: “Yes, yes”). But John wasn't there. So I'm really curious. Like, can you talk about what is the choreographic process (Lopes: “Yeah”) particularly when you are not the lead choreographer, but yet being directed and from afar, during, I don't know what it gets more 21st century than pandemic times?
COURTNEY LOPES: So well, okay, a little back history is that so we started making those Caprices. They all were, most of them were made on Zoom. And so you know, we were kind of in the groove of like learning choreography off of zoom. But, I think what John had in mind about what this party store was, was very different than what it actually was because it's tiny. Like everything in Bermuda is tiny. The people, the structures, the room, everything is so small. (Bolingbroke: “Land is at a premium”). Oh, yeah, it's like twenty-one miles long, you know, and so there, so he's like, okay, he's, well, I'm learning all this material in a studio at first. I think I was in a studio. at first, and he taught me all of the movement, he wanted me to learn through zoom, and then then the next rehearsal, it was, it was we also made it in like, one week. It was very quick. So then the next rehearsal, he's like, “can you just send me a video of the party store?” So as I'm sending it, it's like the aisles are like, this big, you know. (Bolingbroke: “Three or four feet”). Yeah, three or four feet, and it's so small, and you're just going on doing this movement and like, my arms can't do what they need to be doing, my legs can't do it. And I also just am running out of space. And John was like, “it's gonna be okay. It's gonna be okay.” And then he was like, “we're gonna figure it out.” So, I went, I didn't even I never even really spent that much time by myself. I was working at the party store a lot as well. So I felt like I really knew it. I rearranged some stuff. And then we just went through the entire dance. And he'd be like, “try it over there, try it over here,” and I was like, “John is not going to work.” You know, there was so many things that didn't work and so many things that did, but he just fully trusted me. And I think that's what I'm learning about working with John specifically, it's been nine years together that like, I kind of, I don't know, I feel like I now can voice my own opinion, very much so. (Bolingbroke: “The trust is both ways. To be able speak up, that's huge”). Exactly. And I'm like, “this is not working,” you know. And so we together went through every single movement, and certain things, he was just like, “do whatever feels natural,” and I would do it different every single time. Then he wanted to go outside. So we're like in the party store. And then we take it outside. And it was like, so crazy, because originally it was just me dancing. And then he's like, “No, you need props. “So then there was it was the seventh Caprice. So we had a balloon that was like the number seven. That choreography, took the longest like to get the balloon out the door and me chasing after it, I had my mom, my dad, my cousin, my partner, I had everybody in this process with me, like on the floor rolling around, like trying to get this balloon out the door. So out of the entire process, that was the hardest thing. (Bolingbroke: “Balloon choreography, I love it”). And he was very specific with certain things, and that was one of them.
CHRISTY BOLINGBROKE: And sometimes that's also I think, a 21st century practice or activity is, some you know, whereas I would typify in the 20th century, you mentioned Limón, there is a technique. (Lopes: “Yes”). You know, it's, you know, a world been defined. And then there's only so many permutations to make those phrases. In the 21st century, it's like, yes and. How do you realize the artist’s goal, and they're not going to tell you how to get there. But just keep pushing the finish line.
COURTNEY LOPES: Right, and especially with Zoom, like, with John, you know, he was I think he might have even been in Alaska at that point. I'm not even sure where he was, but he, he was very, “I can't help you,” like, figure it out, you know, right, figure it out. So then you get to have to be creative. And you know, just make your work. (Bolingbroke: “Yeah, and what you are going to show on the screen”) Yeah, and then filming it was like a whole other thing, because usually, when we're doing the Caprices, we'll learn everything on Zoom. And either we'll film it on Zoom, or we'll come to New York. During the pandemic, we did multiple times, we would come and be together. And they would hire someone to film it and call it a day. And I didn't have anyone in Bermuda to just (Bolingbroke: “Yeah”), you know. So that was another thing, like rolling around on chairs. I had my whole family helping me like film this thing. And it was like the most fun I had had in a really long time. Okay, so it was good. It was so fun. Yeah. And then I got to send, my favorite part of the whole thing was I got to mail out something from the party store to all the other dancers that were in the piece, because eventually what happened was, we let balloons go, which we didn't actually let go because of the environment. (Bolingbroke: “Yes”). We did not. We had like this huge string that like we that you couldn't see in the actual video, And the balloons looked like they disappeared. And then it landed in New York, like all of these items ended in New York, and then I landed in New York, it was this whole thing. I'll send it to you. (Bolingbroke: “Okay”). And then we all ended up in New York. And it was just like moment, and we all had on something from my dad's party store. It was cute. (Bolingbroke: “I love…”). It was fun.
CHRISTY BOLINGBROKE: I love that you found like the magic of theater, right? I think about like old school light shows, Loie Fuller, you know, you know, things that were hundred years ago, that make the stage or performance look magical. And that you could also do that in the Zoom. (Lopes: “Yeah”) I am curious, you know, we've kind of clocked a couple things is like that seems very 21st century, but with a title like “21st Century Dance Practices,” how would you define it?
COURTNEY LOPES: Oh, How would I define it?
CHRISTY BOLINGBROKE: You're living it right.
COURTNEY LOPES: I know, how would I define? I mean, especially in the past couple of years, I think, you can't really expect anything. That's how, I think I have learned to, I mean, some people would argue with me on this, but to just not have expectations, because I just feel like a lot of disappointment had happened in this past few years. So if you use, you can’t expect something to also run as smoothly as it used to be. So I think that huh that's a hard question. But I think you just have to wake up every day, and just do what you're said to do that day and it's probably going to change. That's how I honestly think about 21st century dance is like, you have no idea what's gonna happen. You have to always be ready.
CHRISTY BOLINGBROKE: I, It's funny you say that because as you were talking I was reminded of like, you don't have to get ready if you stay ready.
COURTNEY LOPES: Yeah, just just always, that's so great. You don't have to get ready if you just stay ready.
CHRISTY BOLINGBROKE: And then at the same time, we talked about expectations. I think of you know, some of the things we tell ourselves, not only in dance, but just in life like, “oh, when when I get to that it's all going to be worked out.” (Lopes: “Oh no”). And I appreciate the sort of emotional reframing and psychological reframing to say like, “Oh, what if I just look at what I'm doing today, instead of waiting to do things until I think I get to this one moment that I expect, because what if that one moment never happens?”
COURTNEY LOPES: Yeah. And it's completely out of your control. (Bolingbroke: “Yeah”). Right now, especially, you know,
CHRISTY BOLINGBROKE: Technically, you know, and you went through a college program. I appreciate you also saying, like, you know, sort of this like, “oh, do I have to do ballet” and I'm processing that. But I think one of the other things that comes up is, we've trained our audiences to, you know, applaud wildly at thirty-two fouettés center stage. How do you define virtuosity?
COURTNEY LOPES: Well, I think we've learned a lot about watching dance, especially through screen recently. To me, it's never been the thirty, Like, never been the thirty-two fouettés, ever, or the high leg or, because I never had any of that, you know. And so as a dancer, that's not something that I used to like, look for when I was looking for my role models and stuff. I think that if I can just like, when it comes to like, watching, if I can watch something, and I actually feel something, that's the most important thing to me. And I think right now more than ever, it's not about quality. I mean, it's not about quantity, it's more about quality. And I just think that we try so hard to just do so much and be so like, physically, you know, to constantly have it go, go go. That that just, I don't know, that doesn't matter anymore, I think. And I think that if you just focus on making something that's gonna like touch somebody, that sounds kind of cliche, but I think that that's like the most beautiful.
CHRISTY BOLINGBROKE: Lots of others might describe it is yeah, authenticity (Lopes: “Authenticity, exactly”). Authenticity or genuineness.
COURTNEY LOPES: Right and I think, especially on Zoom, we were very much trying to just like make these, like amazing things happen, when really, you're just like, the most simple things were my absolute favorite.
CHRISTY BOLINGBROKE: You know, having watched some of the Caprices, some of the, you know, and I also knew John's work off stage. But if I could offer something to you as the dancers. Not only did you make things happen, there was also such a sense of like, “let's put on a show.” There was a sense of play. (Lopes: “Yeah”). And to touch someone doesn't mean that you have to, like change their life. But it was such a good reminder to play (Lopes: “Yeah”) in a really great way. I'm curious, you know, I this, feels like a sense of like maintenance of ongoing momentum. How do you get out of a rut, if you're just not feeling it that day? Is there anything that you do to sort of like, break out of that or to keep giving some momentum?
COURTNEY LOPES: Yeah, I mean, as soon as you said that I thought about like, I was in a major rut in March 2020. Like, you know, I mean, this is like full scale, not just every day, but I was in the biggest rut and the fruit, like the one thing I needed was to just like, take a step back and the world just like handed it to me. (Bolingbroke: “Oh, so before the world shut down”) Before the world shut down, I needed it. No, and that's how I felt, and so now I like fully learned from that and every single day, I'm like, if I'm not feeling it, I have to just take a step away. I've also secretly made Bermuda my like, escape, like actually to just leave New York because that is what stressed me out the most. Like I was planning to move like I didn't want to stay in New York like I was like, I don't like you know, I was exhausted by it. And then I took a year and a half break. And I realized that's what I need to do, I need to take breaks and I'm the kind of dancer who works seven days a week all day, like I hustle, and I freelance you know. I mean, I was (Bolingbroke: “Yeah”) refrain, I was and now I've like fully just realized I can't do that anymore. Like I just, it makes me not enjoy dancing as much because all you know, it's just it's like, you're beating it over the head and it's just like, no, like, if you could just do less.
CHRISTY BOLINGBROKE: You know, I think that's a good reminder, whether you are hustling as a freelance dancer or in anything that you're doing, the reminder to take breaks because we have in some ways taken that out.
COURTNEY LOPES: But I also, I will answer your actual question. I like to, I like to just do something else that's like not usually dance. I hate to I say that because I really do love dancing, obviously. But when I'm in a rut, it's usually about my career or about my like everyday life, which is actually just dancing every day. Which I'm so grateful for. But I love to like color or read a book, or like go outside, I feel like I really forget to do that, be by water. Like I do physical things in order to get myself out of any kind of rut. And then I feel so inspired to, you know, make something which I don't do often. But if I do, it's like, the inspiration is just different.
CHRISTY BOLINGBROKE: Different muscles (Lopes: “different muscles, yeah) different environment. Yeah, knowing how that changes the timing, instead of trying to like force yourself to (Lopes: “Totally”) keep at a certain speed. (Lopes: “Yeah). I have one last question. (Lopes: “Ask”). Would you like to pass on a great piece of advice that you received about navigating a creative career or offer one up for our students and community?
COURTNEY LOPES: Think I will always offer up the don't give up. Because as a dancer who, you know, has had to really work hard for everything. It's cliche, but it's, I really mean it, like don't stop trying. Because I really do. I mean, I had I had people telling me that and I think I gave up so many times in my head. And when I would like stop and just remember those things or those moments then it's like, “no, you got this you can keep going,” you know, like you think you're gonna give up but I think someone told me that and I just, I keep going with that. And I still to this day, at thirty-one, I still keep going with it, you know. Don't stop, also feel like people give up too easily, especially in this career. It's really difficult.
CHRISTY BOLINGBROKE: I love that. Thank you for being so personal with us and for sharing your perspective. Please join me in thanking Courtney.
COURTNEY LOPES: Thank you for having me.
OUTRODUCTION: Inside The Dancer’s Studio Lunchtime Talk Series is supported by NCCAkron, the University of Akron, the University of Akron Foundation and the Mary Schiller Myers Lecture Series in the Arts. Our podcast program is produced by Jennifer Edwards. Ellis Rovin is our composer and editor. Theme music by Floco Torres, cover art by Micah Kraus. Special thanks to Kat Wentz and the team on the ground in Akron, Ohio. To learn more about NCC Akron, please visit us online at nccakron.org. And follow us on Instagram or Facebook at NCCAkron. We hope you enjoyed this episode, and we encourage you to subscribe on your favorite podcast streaming platform by searching for Inside The Dancer’s Studio. Please share with your friends and if you’d like to help get the word out rate us, and leave a review on Apple podcasts. Thanks for listening and stay curious.