In this episode, NCCAkron's Executive/Artistic Director, Christy Bolingbroke enters the 'studio' with New York-based improviser and movement artist, Samantha Speis. Speis has worked with Gesel Mason, The Dance Exchange, Deborah Hay, is currently a member of The Skeleton Architecture collective of black womyn and gender non-conforming artists, and was recently awarded a Bessie for Outstanding Performer. She is also the Artistic Director of Urban Bush Women.
In this episode, NCCAkron's Executive/Artistic Director, Christy Bolingbroke enters the 'studio' with New York-based improviser and movement artist, Samantha Speis. Speis has worked with Gesel Mason, The Dance Exchange, Deborah Hay, is currently a member of The Skeleton Architecture collective of black womyn and gender non-conforming artists, and was recently awarded a Bessie for Outstanding Performer. She is also the Artistic Director of Urban Bush Women.
EPISODE LINKS
ARTIST BIO
Samantha Speis (New York, NY) is an improviser and movement artist based in the Bronx, and is the Artistic Director of Urban Bush Women. She has worked with Gesel Mason, The Dance Exchange, Jumatatu Poe, Deborah Hay, Marjani Forte, and Liz Lerman. She is currently a member of The Skeleton Architecture collective of black womyn and gender non-conforming artists and was recently awarded a Bessie for Outstanding Performer. She has developed a teaching practice that explores pelvic mobility as the root of powerful locomotion and as a point of connection to the stories, experiences, and lineages that reside in each of us.
INTRODUCTION: Thanks for joining us Inside the Dancer’s Studio where we bring listeners, like you, closer to the creative process. Inside the Dancer’s Studio is a program of The National Center for Choreography at The University of Akron, as part of our Ideas in Motion initiative, and was recorded in front of a live audience on the university campus. Today we join Christy Bolingbroke, our Executive/Artistic Director in conversation with Samatha Speis of Urban Bush Women.
CHRISTY BOLINGBROKE: Sam, how and when did you know you wanted to be a choreographer? Is, is there a moment?
SAMANTHA SPEIS: This is interesting because I don't think there was a moment that I said to myself, or I thought, ‘Oh, I'm going to be a choreographer.’ I've always been creating and so that was a path that just I, I inherently took. And I think there is the, the choice and the, there was the choice and the locating of saying, ‘I want to give more attention to this,’ but I never, I never said to myself, ‘I want to be a choreographer.’ I always said I want to be creating and that didn't necessarily mean creating work, it just meant creating. And in an improvisational context, and I think that, that would that, that feels more of my base is improvisation and through, through improvisation, the, the actual structuring and making became, it was, it was birthed.
CHRISTY BOLINGBROKE: Do you create in other genres or forms other than dance?
SAMANTHA SPEIS: Oh, that's interesting. No.
CHRISTY BOLINGBROKE: Ok, just helping define the idea of always creating, something like that.
SAMANTHA SPEIS: Not, not, not. No, yeah, yeah, I think. Well, let me back up because if we’re thinking outside of genre, of the art world? Yes. You know, I, I’m an organizer. So I create space for people, you know, I create. I'm a mother of two, I create space for my children to, to explore, to investigate, to be, you know, whole and who they are. To develop, to develop in, in holistic ways. So, yes, I do, I, I, yeah, I want to retract that.
CHRISTY BOLINGBROKE: I appreciate that, yeah, the intention of creation not just in the studio.
SAMANTHA SPEIS: Yeah.
CHRISTY BOLINGBROKE: That’s great. Because you’re a person too.
SAMANTHA SPEIS: Yeah, yeah, exactly.
CHRISTY BOLINGBROKE: So, but when you are making a dancework, where do you start? What inspires you?
SAMANTHA SPEIS: There, it could be something that rises to the surface, something that I'm interested in right now. You know, there is this, this inspiration, there is this urgency to, to create around healing, to create around restoration, and what that means. I'm really drawn to water right now. And so that is, you know, that's just like the, the spark. And then my body is a really important aspect of, of coming, something coming to me. I'll go in the studio, or I'll go somewhere, it doesn't always have to be in the studio, it can be outside it can be in my home. And I'll just allow myself to, to speak through my body, to say what it, it, it needs to say. And then I'll go back and look and there are things that come to me, there are ideas, there are concepts that come to me through experiencing, you know, through movement, and then watching and observing, observing myself so that is a, a really important and I'm, I’m doing this because I've been talking a lot about my body being a map. And locating, you know, sometimes there are areas that rise of the map that feel like ‘okay, you need to speak to this now’ or ‘you need to,’ you know, ‘you need to create around this now.’ And which is like that water aspect is like rising, you know, to the top which is in the, the, what I call the womb space. So, this is an area that's been conjuring ideas and, and thoughts and, and things of that nature than a saying, ‘oh, this is what you,’ you know, ‘you should be giving your energy to right now.’
CHRISTY BOLINGBROKE: The question was posed as almost like that you would be, would be responding to or taking inspiration from something, and you didn’t use this verb but I wanted to see, to float it by you, when you talk about what you need to speak to. I’m, I’m also struck that you may be also listening to your body.
SAMANTHA SPEIS: Absolutely.
CHRISTY BOLINGBROKE: Which, which might be quieter. When people think about inspiration being this huge event, and your, but actually maybe carving out time or finding space that you can kind of have a dialogue, both hearing and talking to your body or different elements. The water, I love that idea.
SAMANTHA SPEIS: Yeah, yeah, absolutely. That, I think that is also a huge part of, of my practice is, is listening and like the, the, the deep to the nitty gritty like zero listening so that there's the availability for the, the ingesting or taking in of what also lives that I may not actually be able to locate.
CHRISTY BOLINGBROKE: But you can feel.
SAMANTHA SPEIS: But I can feel it, yeah.
CHRISTY BOLINGBROKE: How would you characterize your choreographic relationship to sound?
SAMANTHA SPEIS: Mmm, there is, this is, okay. So I'm going to take this back to, I mentioned this to the students the other day as just an example. My mother, and this is just one example, but my mother, she would clean in the middle of the night on a Saturday or a Sunday. And I re, I recall her playing music, like blasting music actually. And we would just, you know, I would help because I'm a, I’m a clean, I like to clean from a very young age. And I recall just running around the house, dancing around cleaning, you know, but I recall that. So there's something about sound not just being, like, from an instrument necessarily, but the sound of like the broom or the sound of my mother saying. My parents, they used to call me Mantha. So, ‘Mantha, go get,’ you know, ‘such and such,’ or you know, ‘so and so.’ And so, those sounds are things that again have been stored and archived in my body. I also, I’m from Washington, DC, and there is a very specific genre of music ‘gogo.’ And so that has also been a huge part of, like, how rhythm lives inside of me. And then how that also translates to the body. So I think that, you know, and then from, and then that lineage of, of, of movement. I also brought up rolling down hills, you know, and so what did that sound like? And what did that feel like? The grass against my body and, and the ‘ch-ch-ch-ch’ as I, I moved down. So I think of sound as being something that has informed, in this, the, the tiniest ways, and I think about like the detail, you know, that when I'm working in an internal place or when I'm working in a more external place. What those sounds, what those sounds conjure up what they, what they bring up, what the memories…
CHRISTY BOLINGBROKE: Mm-hmm.
SAMANTHA SPEIS: ...of those sounds bring up for me. And then what's already there, you know…
CHRISTY BOLINGBROKE: Mm-hmm.
SAMANTHA SPEIS: ...that I can't always explain. But I know that it's in my body and it lives in my body and then it speaks through my body. Um, so it's, it's, it's interesting and then just, you know, being able to have different experiences where that builds my palette of, of listening. A, a few years ago, myself and Jawole Zollar co-choreographed the work ‘Walking With Trane.’ And that process was a three-year making process that included research and that re, some of that research included this deep listening of difference, you know, different sounds, different, different artists, Miles Davis, John Coltrane…
CHRISTY BOLINGBROKE: As, the ‘Trane’ references Coltrane’s music.
SAMANTHA SPEIS: Yeah, Coltrane, yeah. And, and just really trying to also be inside of that listening and listening in a way where we're not trying to emulate, but we're trying to, to find ourselves or find some aspect of whatever it is that we're experiencing in that work, that allows us, again, to be like full. And then to contribute to it. So.
CHRISTY BOLINGBROKE: What it strikes as an ongoing theme is this got, this idea of dialogue. And, and sometimes that's not a direct dialogue, sometimes it's a, it is a call and response. And I've seen that in Urban Bush Women performances, you know, calling each other out, working directly with a drummer. And you can see, I mean, there's a synergy, one isn't necessarily leading the other. And that is a nuanced approach, there's a reason that the question didn't ask about your relationship to music. Because a lot of times in choreography, there's an assumption that music, like, each song just has a dance locked up inside of it and the choreographer just comes in and turns the right key to unlock it from that song. And that, that's not the reality. So I appreciate how you've also brought in the spirit of environment and that sort of listening and how sounds are in dialogue with each other the same way dancers might be too. And then the meta verses in the meta and dancers in dialogue with the sounds. So one tactical question, how do you name a dance work?
SAMANTHA SPEIS: Oh, I…
CHRISTY BOLINGBROKE: Ugh, I know.
SAMANTHA SPEIS: Naming dance works, oh, it’s the, it’s the most difficult part. I’m, I’m awful, I’m terrible at naming dance works. And I'm thinking about earlier works that I've created and the number of times that the name has changed. And I think it's, it's connected to the evolution and the understanding of the work and what it is that I'm creating?
CHRISTY BOLINGBROKE: Or sometimes they, when they need the title, you’re not done making it yet!
SAMANTHA SPEIS: They need the title, I’m not done. That happens all the time. Like, ugh, ‘please, no, I don’t want to name this.’ I don’t want to label it.
CHRISTY BOLINGBROKE: Right.
SAMANTHA SPEIS: So that does, that, that, that is very difficult. And, and it's, it's, it's something that I grapple with often. Because then, you know, what I've had to work myself out of is that this isn’t what it is, it doesn't have to be this. So yes, for the sake of that grant, give it this title, and know that that, that isn't contingent upon what you actually create. And so I've started letting go of naming, you know, and then allowing the work to, to manifest and become, and then if it has to shift it, it shifts. So, every, every process is, every process of, of titling the work is, is very different. And there, there is no approach to it, I think the approach is let go and let the work speak, you know, speak to you and speak for itself. And then when that title comes, it comes.
CHRISTY BOLINGBROKE: Uh-huh. I, there are some choreographers who will also just say, ‘well, the name of the music is this, so I'm going to call the dance that too.’ You know, which, which, I mean that, that in itself is a choice but almost to say like, ‘I'm not gonna fight it. Why, why do we need multiple names out there?’ So in, you talked about working your way just through the naming process. In, in the process of making if you find yourself in a creative rut, how do you get out of it? How do you continue to move forward?
SAMANTHA SPEIS: Yeah, because, there, you have to.
CHRISTY BOLINGBROKE: Mm-hmm.
SAMANTHA SPEIS: For me, it's, it's pausing. Like just taking a moment to pause. You know, working under, right now, mostly working under the, the umbrella of creating under Urban Bush Women. And so, you know, there's that, ‘you have this performance coming up, oh, this premiere is happening.’ So there is, there is that forward progression that has to happen.
CHRISTY BOLINGBROKE: The sun’s gonna come up the next day.
SAMANTHA SPEIS: Exactly. And the, the approach of just, ‘it’s ok, just pause for a moment, breathe into it. Maybe we don’t go into rehearsal today, maybe we do a half a day, maybe we just reflect, maybe there's information in sitting around and talking, maybe there's information in taking a nap.’ And then there are the times when you just, you keep pushing because you have to and trusting that there will be something there. And if there isn't, I think this, this is another thing that I don't lock myself, I try not to, I'm make an, a huge effort not to lock myself into, you know, although it, it has to be done now, that it isn't done. You know, it isn't the product, I feel like…
CHRISTY BOLINGBROKE: You can go back.
SAMANTHA SPEIS: You can go back and, and I often, in my work, once it, it has made a premiere or, you know, it's, it's been put out into the world, that is not the, the end, it's not the, the completed work. It takes years for, to get to a place where I feel like, ‘oh, that's, that's it.’ And so I, I default to that, I lean into that, and know that there are times when you just have to push through. I have to push through and, and, and maybe it's not focusing on this section today, maybe it's going and focusing on this, maybe it's starting from the end of the work, or whatever, you know, is the end of the work for that moment and working on that. So pulling out pieces and, and, and working from there.
CHRISTY BOLINGBROKE: It, I’m, I'm, it struck me when you said it can take years because Urban Bush Women just performed a, a piece originally premiered in the 80s, ‘I Don't Know What I've Been Told, But If I Dance, I Won't Grow Old.’ And it, it felt just as fresh and relevant today. And, and so that idea that sometimes maybe it's not about the steps, but the structure that you're choreographing.
SAMANTHA SPEIS: Yeah.
CHRISTY BOLINGBROKE: So that there still can be that evolution inside of it because the dancers are going to be different.
SAMANTHA SPEIS: Absolutely
CHRISTY BOLINGBROKE: Right? From those that originally premiere a piece, sometimes between fall and spring, sometimes between two decades. So how are you creating something that could it, will always evolve? More rhetorically…
SAMANTHA SPEIS: Yeah.
CHRISTY BOLINGBROKE: Cause I want to, I want to get to, maybe…
SAMANTHA SPEIS: I want to say one more thing.
CHRISTY BOLINGBROKE: Please, yeah.
SAMANTHA SPEIS: And also, works may show up as different works. So, you know, you may have an, I might have an idea of ‘this,’ and work on ‘this’ for a, a certain amount of time, and then drop it, and then create ‘this.’ But then some, down the line, it actually, ‘this’ makes sense with ‘this,’ or I go back to ‘that,’ so.
CHRISTY BOLINGBROKE: It’s all related.
SAMANTHA SPEIS: Yeah.
CHRISTY BOLINGBROKE: And, and then performances are just sort of a, an interruption in between the process.
SAMANTHA SPEIS: Right.
CHRISTY BOLINGBROKE: Yeah. I wanted to, to ask. What’s the best piece of advice that you’ve ever received? Particularly just life, or in navigating a creative career that you might want to share?
SAMANTHA SPEIS: Oh, that is difficult.
CHRISTY BOLINGBROKE: Or make some up on the spot.
SAMANTHA SPEIS: Yeah. I’m going back, let me see, going back, going back.
CHRISTY BOLINGBROKE: Yeah. We’re, we’re, we’re conjuring all the ancestors’ and mentors’ information.
SAMANTHA SPEIS: I know, that’s, yes. Oh my goodness. Well, one thing that, that is on the top that Jawole, and I’m not gonna say it verbatim, but there’s one thing that Jawole shares often is, ‘if you’re not on the edge of failure, you’re not taking a risk.’ And that has been really important because, you know, we, there are the ideas of what failure is. And I speak about this often in class, it’s like, ‘go on ahead and fall off your leg.’ Or, you know, because there is the info, the information is there. And if you never do that, then you never know, you are never in the know of, or the possibility of. And so, you know, yeah. Being able to just be on the precipice of whatever, you know, feels uncomfortable or feels like, ‘Oh, I,’ you know, ‘I won't survive that.’ Also feels exciting when you, you know, you meet them to it.
CHRISTY BOLINGBROKE: You make it through.
SAMANTHA SPEIS: Yeah, so that. And then there’s something that Sharon Bridgforth said, and I have it written down, I can’t remember. But she said something, ‘often the stories you’re afraid to share are the stories you should be telling.’ Sharon Bridgforth just said that a few days ago, I was with her. ‘The stories you’re often afraid to share are the stories that you should be telling.’
CHRISTY BOLINGBROKE: Thank you. Excellent. We have time for maybe one or two more questions, I want to make sure not to, to leave those in the room. You don’t even have to mic up, I’ll repeat the question for the purpose of documentation. I have more questions, we, believe me, we didn’t get to them all, but you all have been such a great audience too. Yes, please.
AUDIENCE MEMBER: I'm really drawn to this idea of the body as a sort of living archive and how you're able to sort of excavate those memories in your work. And so I’m curious, like, how your process is translating that onto other bodies and other archives?
SAMANTHA SPEIS: Yes, that’s what I’m working on here because I’ve noticed that there is, I've been doing this work with myself and on myself for years. Since I've, you know, yeah, for, for years. And I'm in the, I'm in the research and the discovery of how to do that. Because what's important to me is not, is it that people take on the style of what I'm doing, but that they are breathing life into what is, you know, being shared with them in a way that is, is most truthful for them. And so I'm, I’m really interested in what a person is bringing into it just as much as what I'm sharing with them, or what, what, you know, what they're experiencing from me. So I'm in that, that, that research right now of, like, how do you share that? Because we all have the storage in the, in the memories and the, in the archiving in our bodies scenario of like, ‘Oh, yeah, how do we get to that? How do we, how do we access that if we're not?’ Or, you know, ‘how are we aware of it? Like, are we aware of it?’ And so it's like, understanding that first, and it took me, I was, I was speaking to a colleague of mine the other day, and I was tracking, like, my formal dance lineage, and thinking, ‘Oh, yeah, I picked that up,’ like, ‘that is what, you know, propels me into this. And then this propels me into this.’ And just seeing the circular, circularity of that lineage. And then I, you know, I can go back and track the lineage of being a child or, you know. So it's, it's all, it's all-important. And it's, it's something that I’m dedicated to, to understanding more so that folks can also be in that understanding and sharing as well.
CHRISTY BOLINGBROKE: Well, and as part of your work this week, you just did, you get a shout out.
SAMANTHA SPEIS: Yes.
CHRISTY BOLINGBROKE: Bernaldra Williams came with you as an, an additional observer and thought partner to be able to acknowledge that. Because I think sometimes choreographers, you're, you're trying to make the thing, you're trying to coach the thing, you're trying to lead, you know, and among all of these different skills. And so, to have someone, I so appreciate that in coming into this, you were like, wait, this is an opportunity, I got, this is part of the work and making this, this experience work for you.
SAMANTHA SPEIS: Thank you for that. This is really important.
CHRISTY BOLINGBROKE: Thanks, Bernaldra.
SAMANTHA SPEIS: Yeah, thank you.
CHRISTY BOLINGBROKE: Any other questions? Last one? I’ll take the last one then. In accepting this invitation, I'm, I’m curious what the term ‘21st-century dance practices’ means to you. Your interpretation of that. I mean, obviously, we felt that in being able to welcome you in this week, and thank you again so much for joining us.
SAMANTHA SPEIS: Thank you.
CHRISTY BOLINGBROKE: That it, it, it's following instinct as well as our observations in the field. Things that are sort of bucking the trend of codified techniques of the 20th century. I'm vamping for you to make your own definition.
SAMANTHA SPEIS: Yeah. So, going back to what I was saying about lineage. I think that something that I value is what came before. And so, with that understanding of what came before and what has been an influence, whether, you know, whether I name it or other makers name it, there is that influence. And so, I think with that is like, what are we doing with what has been given to us, what has been extended to us? Is it trying to make it better or, or the revamping it. Or I think what, as, as a, as a maker, I am thinking of it as dreaming into what can be for the next. So, recognizing that this has been, you know, created and established in and did wonderful things and now, what am I doing in the field that is going to allow for that dreaming of the next to, to occur and to be like expansive in that, in that dreaming inside of that, so.
CHRISTY BOLINGBROKE: To dreaming to the next. Samantha Speis, ladies and gentlemen and everyone.
SAMANTHA SPEIS: Thank you, thank you.
OUTRODUCTION: Inside the Dancer’s Studio lunchtime talk series is supported by NCCAkron, The University of Akron, The University of Akron Foundation, and the Mary Schiller Myers Lecture Series in the Arts. Our podcast program is produced by Jennifer Edwards, Ellis Rovin is our composer and editor, transcription by Madeline Greenberg, theme music by Flocco Torres, cover art by Micah Kraus, and Julian Curet and Kat Wentz are our artist coordinators. We hope you enjoyed this episode and we encourage you to subscribe on your favorite podcast streaming platform by searching for Inside the Dancer’s Studio. Thank you for listening and stay curious.