In this episode, NCCAkron's Executive/Artistic Director, Christy Bolingbroke enters the 'studio' with Phoenix, Arizona-based artist and activist Ruby Morales. Morales describes her work as that of a ‘dance artivist,’ where she investigates culturally informed teaching methods, circular leadership models, and her relationship with movement as a bgirl and in Mexican style cumbia. She is the recipient of many awards and fellowships, most recently, she was honored by the Association of Performing Arts Professionals with the Spark of Change Award.
In this episode, NCCAkron's Executive/Artistic Director, Christy Bolingbroke enters the 'studio' with Phoenix, Arizona-based artist and activist Ruby Morales. Morales describes her work as that of a ‘dance artivist,’ where she investigates culturally informed teaching methods, circular leadership models, and her relationship with movement as a bgirl and in Mexican style cumbia. She is the recipient of many awards and fellowships, most recently, she was honored by the Association of Performing Arts Professionals with the Spark of Change Award.
INTRODUCTION: Thanks for joining us Inside the Dancer’s Studio, where we bring listeners like you closer to the creative process. Inside The Dancer’s Studio is a program of the National Center for Choreography in Akron, Ohio, as part of our Ideas in Motion initiative. This episode was recorded as an ongoing documentation practice with NCCAkron visiting artists in 2023-2024. Today we joined Christy Bolingbroke, our Executive/Artistic Director, in conversation with Phoenix, AZ-based artist and activist Ruby Morales. Morales describes her work as that of a ‘dance artivist,’ investigating culturally informed teaching methods, circular leadership models, and her relationship with movement as a bgirl and Mexican style cumbia. She is the recipient of many awards and fellowships, most recently, she was honored by APAP with a Spark of Change Award.
CHRISTY BOLINGBROKE: How did you choose to become a choreographer or when did you know? I don't even know if it is a choice.
RUBY MORALES: Yeah, yeah, um, recently, I've been saying that I did my first, I choreographed my first piece when I was three. With my mom, actually [Bolingbroke: Love that]. I've been doing talent shows since I was like, really, really little. And so I knew that we had choreographed, it was when I was living in Chicago, and I knew that it was to Mark Anthony's, I Need to Know. [Bolingbroke: Yes]. So I asked her, so what was it like to co-choreograph with your three-year-old daughter? And she said that they, that we would, she would like, give me a move and show it to me. And then say, asked me if I liked it, or what I wanted to add next, or do it like this. And then she said that I would also be like, “no, I want to do it like this.” And so I that'd be the first time that I choreographed. And then like, as I got older, dance was always something that was always in my life in some kind of way. I grew up dancing cumbia at family parties. But my mom also let us, and allowed us to just explore different things. So I did a bunch of different things growing up. And then I, when I went to college, I was like, I like to say that, like my ancestors planted a seed into my brain, [Bolingbroke: Yes] or the wind hit me [Bolingbroke: Yeah] or something happened, where I was like, “oh, I need to do, I need to do dance for the rest of my life.” So, I chose dance to go to college. And then as I was in school, there was always inspiration to make my own work. And at ASU, they really, they really encouraged us to, to choreograph and to make our own, our own things and in our own way.
CHRISTY BOLINGBROKE: Hmm, So that was down at Arizona State University [Morales: Yes, yeah] where you ended up going. But I love the idea, especially at such a young age [Morales: Yeah], when you aren't, you know, judging yourself, when you weren't questioning and it really is just so innate. We talk, we talk a poetic game about dance is a language [Morales: Yeah]. But it really was like an inherent language for you from your ancestors [Morales: Yeah]. And sounds like something that you practice among your family, too.
RUBY MORALES: Yeah, yeah, my mom, I remember her telling me that when I was little that, they asked me Ruby, how do you know what to do next? And I was like, “I just feel the music.” And I was like, five.
CHRISTY BOLINGBROKE: I love that. The confidence [Morales: Yeah]. For sure. [Morales: Yeah]. So with music, is that somewhere that you start as a choreographer? or at what point in the process does that come up?
RUBY MORALES: Yeah, it depends. Sometimes I use music to inspire the like, the movement that my body is going to do. And I think because of the forms that I practice, inside of cumbia and breaking, music is like a huge, huge inspiration. And so that's kind of what ignites the, almost like the flow, the part where you're not really thinking, but your body just kind of knows what it's doing without you having to like, you know, get all heady about it. Your body just listens to the music and knows, knows where to go, how to go, and how to do it. In terms of like my choreographic process, sometimes it'll inspire the movement. And then sometimes I like to come up with movement and then collaborate with a musician, and then bring in their understanding of the concept that I'm working on [Bolingbroke: Mm hmm]. Yeah.
CHRISTY BOLINGBROKE: And I don't know how much experience you have with this, but particularly because of the forms that you work in something that a lot of our students are curious about. It's like, if you want to use popular music, or current music, how do you navigate the sort of rights or access to that? Have you found yourself in that, you know, sort of conundrum as far as like, I want to make it to this piece that's on the top 40 on the radio or something, but that has sort of its own creative admin conundrum.
RUBY MORALES: Yeah, I don't usually work with pop music, but if it is a song, I've been really lucky where I have good relationships with musicians and artists that are connected inside of, inside of Hip Hop. And so I've been able to like, I need this kind of beat or I want this kind of feeling and I've been able to work with, with people who can, can develop that. And then when it comes to the cumbia side of things, what's really cool is that these bands and these groups, even though everyone listens to them, they almost feel very local. So they might come to that like corner bar next to the gas station in Phoenix, even though everyone listens to this particular band. And so there's this like, feeling of localness to it. So they're actually very accessible in terms of using their music. So I think that I feel, I feel like I'm in a place where I don't get to, I don't need to really like deal with that part of it.
CHRISTY BOLINGBROKE: I mean, it also reveals so much about one, relationships and collaboration [Morales: Yes, yes]. But I also love the idea. I mean, in particularly, you know, cumbia and breaking anything that some people might call social dance, because it is of the community, that doesn't mean that it isn't something to be performed on our stages and in various places. But that also, I think, hints at something that you don't see community necessarily, as I'm here to perform, and they're here to watch. [Morales: Yeah], but you're a part of the community. Would that feel apt?
RUBY MORALES: Yeah. 100 percent. I, the when I was working on the last piece that I was working on, Breaking Pachanga I had my mom and a, you know, a close friend, my mom's close friend who's also my friend, come and teach them cumbia classes. And it was really cool to have, one, these, my mom's friend she owes her name, she has always danced and is like, loves dancing. And is, has always like, every time we go out dancing, we all dance together. She's really good at leading. She's like, “I've never taught a class before.” And I was like, that's okay, just come, just come and share what you already know with us. And she was like, “okay,” and it was great. It was a, it was a great experience. I do feel like I am part you know, that it is part of me. And so, and I bring my mom into a lot of the things because she's a very much, she wouldn't name herself this way or use this title, but she's like, a straight up community organizer [Bolingbroke: Nice]. Like whenever somebody needs something, she knows who to turn to, where to go and who to reach out to. And so I always say I tend to turn to her a lot. Yeah.
CHRISTY BOLINGBROKE: Love that [Morales: Yeah]. So then when you're looking for dancers, what, what do you look for, for those, those collaborators, for those people to join on a new work?
RUBY MORALES: Yeah, I like to look for people who are already connected to the communities that I'm a part of. So I there I was really looking at people who I wanted to work with breakers, with people who had who had been breaking before, who are inside of the practice of breaking. With cumbia, I didn't have too many people. I had like a couple, two or three that had grown up dancing cumbia. Not necessarily go out dancing still, but they grew up around it like culturally, because that's, that's how they were raised. And also, it's really important for me to have, like deep relationships and for us to know that there's, like, we're grounded in like, love and light. And that's really important for me, in terms of who I work with, is that, that that feels very present.
CHRISTY BOLINGBROKE: Hmm. That's beautiful, excellent. Tough, creative question [Morales: Oh-oh]. This also is from our students. No, well, I think you never grow out of this challenge for some people. How do you name a dance?
RUBY MORALES: Hmm, yeah. So actually, I was trying to figure, figure that out recently was one of, I did a performance at a museum a short performance, and I was trying to come up, I was like, what is what am I going to, and I went through this long list. And first I, I wrote down all of the things that came to me automatically the things that I knew it was about, and I know it's about this, this. So I made a long list. And then I was unhappy with all of them. Like, it's none of these. And then I let it go, I just kind of like, okay, I'm not gonna stress out about what I'm going to call this. I'm going to move forward and move on, do the, do my life. And then it just, it kind of just appears to you. There's another piece too that I was, I've been working with my this piece that I'm, I'm like, conceptualizing with, it's a duet with my mom. I was also thinking like, what am I going to name this piece and previous pieces, there was one that I did about my grandma that I called Por Ti Comimos, which is “because of you we ate.” And so that was the name of that, that was the name of the piece and I was like, Okay, well now I'm working on this different piece with my mom and I've been exploring this idea of like, of dismantling patriarchy and what that looks like, inside of our matriarch and passed like generation to generation. And then I was like, oh, it's not that because of her, you know, my, my brother ate and my dad ate and you know, no, it's because of her, us, the women we ate. Like that's why. And so then this this piece now is called Por Nosotras Comemos, “Because of us, in the femme form” [Bolingbroke: Yes], We eat. And so kind of like flipping it and, and so I think it comes it, comes through from like a lot of, of like thinking and reflecting and writing and, and really trying to understand like, where are these ideas and concepts coming from and why, what inspired this and what is living inside of this. And it feels like the like those things kind of start to appear as you're inside of the reflective space.
CHRISTY BOLINGBROKE: I love that and also relates to one of our earlier conversations about sometimes you have to sort of get all the ideas out [Morales: Yeah], maybe on post-it notes something tactile [Morales: Yeah], move it around [Morales: Yeah]. It's not all gonna make it into the final piece [Morales: Yeah]. Dance-making, art-making is not a linear process [Morales: Yeah], all the time [Morales: No]. So it sounds like you're constantly listening, reflecting inside of that. Another question to share, because I think anyone, whether you're writing a paper or making a dance, you sometimes are not feeling it. And so what do you do if you are having some sort of creative block?
RUBY MORALES: Mm-huh. There's a couple of things. I like to turn to my people. I have like a, you know, really close friends and people that I've collaborated with in the past where I call them and have conversation with them and tell them what I'm thinking. And they're, they’re, because of the relationship that I've built with them there's an understanding of, of when I need, you know, direct support when I need space to be heard. And so I think that I have that relationship. So we're able to create that. And I don't have to like, Okay, name it necessarily, but we kind of understand each other. I also, I like to say, I really do like to say yes, and it's connected to what you did to reflect how you reflected back to me what I had said, is that I just say yes to even the crazy thoughts, like the thoughts that feel like don't make sense, the thoughts that feel like, this is irrelevant. Nobody's gonna understand this. Okay, let's just say yes, for a little bit. Let's just say yes to it, and then see what happens. And, and then it may be if I said yes, and then I didn't like it. Okay, then we won't use it. But sometimes I say yes. And actually, it actually does make a lot of sense. Even though I originally was like, This is wild. Like, I don't like it. It doesn't make sense that all of a sudden I use it. And I'm like, inspired to another thing that might not have been that original yes. So I think that that I like to just like do all of the stuff that even feel like they don't make sense.
CHRISTY BOLINGBROKE: There's, there's something so lovely in the idea of saying yes, that is not a permanent decision [Morales: Yeah, yes]. Yes, right? And you know, maybe it's because dance is ephemeral. And so it's like, that's, that’s not on your permanent record that's not written in ink [Morales: Yeah], you know, it's something that we can let go of, or can erase [Morales: yes], but by saying yes, who knows what you'll find next.
RUBY MORALES: Yeah. Yes. I'm also in love with potential. So I think that inside of the space of potential that that that is exciting to me, because you there's like it can go any direction. And then, and that feels like the Yes. Like it feels like you know, and it also feels like the like the yes that you don't have to like this is forever. But it does feel like potential feels like an exciting fertile place to be in. You don't know what direction you're gonna go. Everything is possible. Yeah. I am in love with potential.
CHRISTY BOLINGBROKE: I love. I love that you're in love with potential too. I like that framing of it. [Morales: Yeah]. So I'm curious. You said yes, to our invitation to come teach as part of “21st Century Dance Practices”? How would you define 21st-century dance practices, though?
RUBY MORALES: Mm-hmm. I would think of it as like, the now. So I think that it feels like just like a way of, of framing and giving like a name and a framing to where we're at in the present. So it doesn't necessarily, to me it doesn't necessarily come with like an aesthetic or a description, but rather like listening to what is happening now. So that could, you could look at historically what's happening now you could look at where is Ruby today? Because this is, she is in the 21st century [Bolingbroke: Yeah. Be with the times]. Yeah. You know, it could be like what's happening in terms of like building buildings, furniture or clothes, or it just feels like a framing or a container for what is today, where we're living right now. Yeah.
CHRISTY BOLINGBROKE: Yeah. I mean, it makes me think a lot of the single choreographer models and examples that we have from the 20th century was sort of about codifying [Morales: Mmmm] Right? Like, well, we don't have a way of writing this down. I'm going to tell you [Morales: Yeah] the, these are the figure fours of Horton technique [Morales: Yeah]. This is what we're going to be doing as far as pleadings in, in Graham [Morales: That’s real]. And that feels less relevant [Morales: Mm-hmm] for today's dancemakers. They aren't starting with a codified technique [Morales: Mm-hmm]. They might be navigating that training [Morales: Mm-hmm]. And how much of that do they want to carry forward? [Morales: Yeah]. But they aren't necessarily beginning with, “I want to make this mine.” [Morales: Yeah]. That feels like a shift of what it is to make dance today.
RUBY MORALES: I wonder also how long it took to name or describe that time period as that? [Bolingbroke: Yes]. Like, how long into it were they in it when they were like, “Oh, this is what we're doing in this time period.” And so I wonder how long it'll take us? Or is it happening now? Or before we can say, Oh, this is what really defined [Bolingbroke: Yeah] the 21st century.
CHRISTY BOLINGBROKE: Yeah, I mean, or even thinking about other like Hip Hop having its 50th anniversary [Morales: Yeah] this year. And that's still a such a nascent idea, [Morales: Yeah] right? In terms of elders in our communities [Morales: Yeah], in terms of what aging in breaking [Morales: Yeah] looks like [Morales: Yeah]. We're still on the forefront [Morales: Yeah] of so much of that. With both, I would, I'm thinking about the cumbia and the breaking [Morales: Mm-hmm]. I'll, I’ll make an assumption that cumbia might be a little bit older than breaking [Morales: Mm-hmm]. And so I'm curious, how do you navigate this sort of, you know, known the old movement vocabularies [Morales: Mm-hmm] and new movement vocabularies? Especially when so many forces will say, in our sector, whether they're funders [Morales: Mm-hmm] or presenters often are like, “what's the new thing?” [Morales: Mm-hmm] And, and you're rooted in kind of two different forms that transcend different times. [Morales: Yeah]. So I'm curious, do you think about that, or kind of like, do you know, like, “Oh, I'm going back to that cumbia basic?” [Morales: Yeah]. It, you know, how is that present in your choreographic process?
RUBY MORALES: I guess I haven't thought about too much in terms of, of time. I guess the couple of times that it has shown up was actually this morning. I was listening to my, mom gave me a list of different bands, and musicians that she liked to listen to. And so I was listening to one of the bands, Los Caminantes. And she was and she didn't give me a specific song or a specific album. So I was just like scanning through different albums. And this album was released in 1971, and one of the songs was like an overlay, he was singing over a funk beat. And it was like “What?!” This was released in 1971 [Bolingbroke: Yes]. So right before hip hop was born. And then also happening, like in a, you know, in a different part of the world. And here, he was inspired by this music, and also layering cumbians. So I was like, there's these connections and layerings of all these different time periods, and music inspiration. And, and so historically, like, what is happening is always influencing the art. And so I thought, I thought that was interesting. It was also interesting to feel the like, like, they almost like they weren't matching, but they were matching, you know, like, these, these different styles of music. So I guess that was a place where it became apparent to me where you can hear the different influences of different instruments and different things that have become popular at that time showing up in the music. And then you can, then you can make connections to other styles of music that are happening at the same time. So I think that that that's interesting. I think, also, it tends to be, people tend to be like, “Oh, these two different forms” hip hop, you know, breaking hip hop and, and cumbia. Like, that's cool. So that almost feels like a little bit of excitement inside of there that people tend to look at that and be excited about that. Yeah, yeah.
CHRISTY BOLINGBROKE: Hmm. And do you find kind of circling back to what you look for in dancers, do they need to specialize in one or the other? Or is there a certain sort of bilingual fluency between the different dance forms?
RUBY MORALES: When I've worked with both of the forms, there isn't too much, where people are doing both. It's either one or the other. I, It's rare. It's also really hard to, to find people who are dancing cumbia in partnership. Like I tend to see it's, it's like my mom's generation. That's who I tend to see out at the club. So when I go dancing with my mom, I'm not seeing many people my age. I'm seeing more people my mom's age that we're dancing with. So in general, I think like, yeah, it's, it's less common to find people who know how to dance cumbia with turns and, and be in that in that kind of cultural setting. And then it, when you watch it, though, you can see like the footwork steps, I mean, it's all connected to the diaspora, right? [Bolingbroke: Yeah, yeah] So it's all like you can see the connections, especially with the footwork inside of cumbia. And then when you do top rocks inside of breaking, it's like it's, it's you can see, see the overlap and the inspiration and how Oh yeah, it makes sense to go from one from one top rock into a basic cumbia step like you can see the Yeah, the overlap [Bolingbroke: Hmm]. Yeah.
CHRISTY BOLINGBROKE: Two more questions [Morales: Mm-hmm, Mm-hmm, Mm-hmm]. One, I'm curious this comparison and understanding between breaking and cumbia. Cumbia certainly as a way of partnering [Morales: Mm-hmm], whereas to my understanding breaking comes out of battle culture [Morales: Mm-hmm], a different kind of partnering [Morales: Mm-hmm] possibly, if you will [Morales: Yeah]. So with the duet that you're developing with your mom [Morales: Mm-hmm], how are you thinking about partnering?
RUBY MORALES: Yeah, I, well, I've been as of now, because I'm so super early in the process, I just kind of have little like, blips of ideas or visions. And so I see, there's this moment, moments where she's doing the movement up top as standing. And I'm doing movement down on the floor, in the form of breaking. And so looking at maybe the steps inside of cumbia, that are done standing, and the footwork that's done on the floor in breaking and how these two can, you can see the similarities inside of them. So I'm I have like that vision. I think also one of the concepts inside of the piece is when my mom moves forward inside, in life, in this thinking of, of what it means to be a woman, what it means to be independent, to be strong and inside of like the dismantling of the patriarchy, as she moves forward, I feel her turning and pulling me with her [Bolingbroke: Mmm]. And then as I move forward in certain places, I feel myself turning and pulling her with me [Bolingbroke: Mmm]. And so there's this like, movement of like, forward and back and, and come and go and turn back look forward, be present. And that feels connected to like, these two, these two forms. And I mean, actually, now I'm even going back to your first, one of your other questions of time [Bolingbroke: Mm-huh]. Feels connected to time. And, yeah.
CHRISTY BOLINGBROKE: I love that. I mean, so much of it, because I think a lot of European forms when it comes to partnering, it is about shapes, It is about [Morales: Mm-hmm], you know, how is the man show, you know, framing the woman, [Morales: Mm-hmm], certainly, but this idea that partnering is almost like a parallel play [Morales: Mm-hmm] too, to be able [Morales: Yeah] to highlight. And hearing you talk about it, you know some floor work, focused, forms, the floor is a partner [Morales:Yeah], that's something else that you're pushing [Morales: Yep] and working with [Morales: Yeah]. There's so much context [Morales: Yeah] inside of that. You're reminding me why I love dance [Morales: Yeah]. Because it is everywhere [Morales: Yeah]. It is a metaphor, it is a lens, a filter [Morales: Yeah] for processing the world we live in. Um last question [Morales: Mm-hmm]: what is the best piece of advice you've ever received for building a creative life? [Morales: Hmmm] And would you mind passing that along for us now?
RUBY MORALES: Mm-hmm. I feel like we're gonna have to edit this because I'm going to think for a little bit.
CHRISTY BOLINGBROKE: We, we encourage thinking [laughs].
RUBY MORALES: Um, can you ask the question again?
CHRISTY BOLINGBROKE: Mm-huh, Mm-huh. In making a creative life, what's the best piece of advice you've received?
RUBY MORALES: Mm-huh. I would say that it's, that there is no like, written path [Bolingbroke: Mm-hmm] for how it's going to look that, and that can be stressful [Bolingbroke: Yeah]. When you're, especially when you're, you've decided to dedicate your life to this and maybe spend a lot of money to go to school [Bolingbroke: Mm-huh Mm-huh]. And you're like, “oh, I need to know what I need to do next. And nobody can tell me because there is no one answer for what you can do next [Bolingbroke: Yes]. And now I'm freaking out [Bolingbroke: Mm-hmm] because now I'm stressed because there is no like pathway that's been written down. And sometimes in other, in other like careers that you may choose there, there is a bit more of an outline. There's like a blueprint [Bolingbroke: Mm-hmm]. Like you do this, you do this, and then this happens. Inside of the creative life, there really isn't. But that's also what makes it the creative life [laughs].
CHRISTY BOLINGBROKE: Yes. Yeah and, and to say yes.
RUBY MORALES: And to say yes.
CHRISTY BOLINGBROKE: And to figure it out [Morales: Yeah]. To say yes, and figure it out [Morales: Yeah] and see what, what else manifests itself from that.
RUBY MORALES: Yeah, and there's freedom in that because there really is there's freedom and liberation and knowing that you have, you have the ability to make any choice and to make anything that you see possible in your own way and that there is no like because I do it this way it's wrong because it's not in accordance to this blueprint. There is no blueprint, so you can do whatever you want [Bolingbroke: Mm-hmm] however you want in whatever way you want. And that, that, that yeah, that, I would say that that would be yeah, a good reminder.
CHRISTY BOLINGBROKE: Whether a 21st-century dance practicing artist or you know, just being an artist, period, it sounds like you're committing to life as a trailblazer.
RUBY MORALES: Mm, Oh, thank you [laughs].
OUTRODUCTION: Inside The Dancer’s Studio Conversation Series is supported by NCCAkron, the University of Akron, the University of Akron Foundation, the Mary Schiller Myers Lecture Series in the Arts, and Audio-Technica, a global audio manufacturer with U.S. headquarters in Northeast Ohio. Our podcast program is produced by Jennifer Edwards. James Sleeman is our editor, transcription by Arushi Singh. Theme music by Floco Torres, cover art by Micah Kraus. Special thanks to Laura Ellacott, Sarah Durham, and Will Blake. To learn more about NCCAkron, please visit us online at NCCakron.org. And follow us on Instagram or Facebook at NCCAkron. We hope you enjoyed this episode, and we encourage you to subscribe on your favorite podcast streaming platform by searching for Inside The Dancer’s Studio. Please share with your friends and if you’d like to help get the word out rate us, and leave a review on Apple podcasts. Thanks for listening and stay curious.