In this episode, NCCAkron's Executive/Artistic Director, Christy Bolingbroke enters the 'studio' with Winston-Salem, NC, based choreographer, Hélène Simoneau, who was recently recognized with a Guggenheim fellowship for her work which strives to hold space for individual agency and explores power dynamics through dance. A native of Rimouski, Québec, Simoneau is the artistic director of Hélène Simoneau Danse and was recently described as “a Choreographer-on-the-rise” by Dance Magazine, and has been commissioned by The Juilliard School, Oregon Ballet Theatre, American Dance Festival, Springboard Danse Montréal among others.
In this episode, NCCAkron's Executive/Artistic Director, Christy Bolingbroke enters the 'studio' with Winston-Salem, NC, based choreographer, Hélène Simoneau, who was recently recognized with a Guggenheim fellowship for her work which strives to hold space for individual agency and explores power dynamics through dance. A native of Rimouski, Québec, Simoneau is the artistic director of Hélène Simoneau Danse and was recently described as “a Choreographer-on-the-rise” by Dance Magazine, and has been commissioned by The Juilliard School, Oregon Ballet Theatre, American Dance Festival, Springboard Danse Montréal among others.
EPISODE LINKS
ARTIST BIO
Hélène Simoneau (Winston-Salem, NC), a native of Québec, Canada, has been commissioned by The Juilliard School, the American Dance Festival, Oregon Ballet Theatre, the Bessie Schönberg Residency at The Yard, Springboard Danse Montréal, and the Swiss Intl. Coaching Project (SiWiC) in Zurich. She was a resident artist at Baryshnikov Arts Center, Bates Dance Festival, and has received fellowships from Bogliasco Foundation and the NC Arts Council. Her work has been presented nationally and internationally at notable venues such as The Guggenheim Museum (NYC), Dance Place (DC), Joyce SoHo (NYC), Tangente (Montréal), The Aoyama Round Theatre (Tokyo), the L.I.G. Art Hall Busan (South Korea), Jacob’s Pillow Inside/Out (MA), PACT-Zollverein in Essen (Germany), and Athens International Dance Festival (Greece).
Simoneau founded Hélène Simoneau Danse (HSDanse) in 2010. Dance Magazine described Simoneau as “a choreographer-on-the-rise with a style that is both athletic and smooth."
INTRODUCTION: Thanks for joining us Inside the Dancer’s Studio where we bring listeners, like you, closer to the creative process. Inside the Dancer’s Studio is a program of The National Center for Choreography at The University of Akron, as part of our Ideas in Motion initiative. This episode was recorded in the presence of a virtual audience in the Spring of 2021. Today we join Christy Bolingbroke, our Executive / Artistic Director in conversation with Winston-Salem, NC, based choreographer, Helen Simoneau, who was recently recognized with a Guggenheim fellowship for her work which strives to hold space for individual agency and explores power dynamics through dance.
CHRISTY BOLINGBROKE: Helen, it, was there a moment? Did you choose it, did it choose you? How did you know that you wanted to be a choreographer?
HELEN SIMONEAU: I would say that it started off with wanting to do modern dance professionally, which happened late for me because I didn’t know that it was a profession. I knew that you could be a ballet dancer for, for a living, but I didn’t know you could be a modern dancer. Where I’m from is pretty rural and I didn’t have so much exposure, but I went to a summer program in Nova Scotia, and there was a teacher there from Toronto who was teaching modern dance, and then she was a professional dancer. And it was just like, ‘Oh my goodness, that's it.’ Like, it was just the most naive thing, I was just like, ‘That’s what I want to do.’ And I had no training. And then I got into the NC School of the Arts, and we had composition classes in that program. And that was actually, I had so little training, that was the only class I felt like I, I was on an even playing field, so it started right there.
CHRISTY BOLINGBROKE: That’s the North Carolina School of the Arts, sorry, I, I didn’t want to, I just wanted to make sure to illuminate.
HELEN SIMONEAU: Yeah, the North Carolina School of the Arts, which is now the University of North Carolina School of the Arts.
CHRISTY BOLINGBROKE: Awesome. So, it really was in that college experience, opening yourself up to, to new worlds and redefining, maybe, where you thought you might be going.
HELEN SIMONEAU: Yeah, I really delved into the composition classes. We had them throughout my entire, I was actually there for 5 years ‘cause I started in grade 12, and, and yeah that was one of the classes where I felt super connected to the process. And that, the process of making and working with my classmates and all of that. So, it just became something that I kept investing in throughout my training and then when I got out into the professional world, I didn’t think I was going to continue to choreograph because in my mind, you dance first and then later, you choreograph. But I actually started choreographing right away. I came back to Canada and I wasn’t dancing as much as I wanted to, so I just started making my own work.
CHRISTY BOLINGBROKE: Yeah, you just have to begin somewhere, sure.
HELEN SIMONEAU: Yeah.
CHRISTY BOLINGBROKE: And so, where do you begin? I think like that’s one of the maybe mystifying aspects of being an artist or anyone who creates from scratch, right? Like inspiration just strikes up on high, but, yeah, where do you start? What inspires you?
HELEN SIMONEAU: I think the main thing is the dancers that I have, I have with me in the room. Which is why it’s so much harder when I’m working by myself. But I do work by myself, I do make material on, on my own body and then translate it or share it in different ways with the, with the dancers. But I think it’s hard for me to know what a dance will really look like until I know who’s working with me on it. Who, who the dancers are going to be and the different personalities. So, I think that would be the main source of inspiration are the, the performers. And where it starts.
CHRISTY BOLINGBROKE: So, have you…
HELEN SIMONEAU: Sorry.
CHRISTY BOLINGBROKE: Yeah, no, go ahead.
HELEN SIMONEAU: I’d say where it starts is something I’ve, I’m continuing to discover what my methods are and trying to hold onto, and with every piece learning a little bit more about what works for me and what methods are worth repeating and what methods maybe are just good for that piece and maybe not the next one. But I do know that I learned pretty early on that I need to, the material needs to come from my body at the very beginning of the process. It doesn’t have to remain that way, and I like to pass it on to the dancers quite early. But, but I, I did make, I made one piece where I tried as an exercise to only do tasks and really to work as a more of the editor, director. And I was, I was happy with the work, but I feel, but I didn’t feel physically connected to it and that somehow was missing for me. So that’s something.
CHRISTY BOLINGBROKE: I, I, I love and appreciate this vulnerability to acknowledge, like, you’re still figuring out your process and methodology and continuing. Is there anything for our aspiring dancers out there, what do you look for in a dancer or a collaborator?
HELEN SIMONEAU: I think most, most important, I want to work with dancers who want to work with me. That’s really like, I mean it’s so basic, but it’s, it’s, you can tell the difference when someone really is interested in your work and interested in being in that creative space with you and is showing up with that, with that investment and curiosity, and so that’s the most important thing. And I think I look for dancers who are curious and who enjoy process because so much of the work is, so much of the time we spend together is in the studio, in, deep in process. So, if someone is more of a performance-oriented performer, like, that’s really what they want to do is just perform, they might not be as happy in my process because so much of it is the studio.
CHRISTY BOLINGBROKE: Yeah, no, and I think working with people who want to work with you, that is good advice in the studio and in life. That sounds, I’m gonna take that one and think about it some more for sure. And as an extension of collaboration, but also your creative vision, how would you characterize your relationship to sound?
HELEN SIMONEAU: Oh yeah. You know, I rarely, I rarely work with sound in the beginning. I don’t, I don’t think I’ve made a dance where I’ve choreographed to the music in a really long time. Which does not mean I’m not influenced by the music, I, I think my relationship to it is, I like to figure out what the rhythm is in my body, like, what the movement is saying first before I let myself bring any other influences in. And so that’s I think one piece. And then I’ve been really fortunate, I think at some point I figured out how to get funding for music commissions. And just, you know, they’re all separate, there’s totally separate grants for commissioning composers. And I started working, I think about like 6 or 7 years ago I started working with living composers and once I did that, I just knew that was the way for me. To always try to find, find that funding to make that collaboration happen. And how then the piece is just so much richer, and the process is so much richer because it’s a constant back and forth between myself and the composer and it’s not a fixed, I’m not working with anything that’s fixed.
CHRISTY BOLINGBROKE: That also it sounds like such a logical extension to working with people who want to work with you and that, that’s a dialogue. The music element certainly is part of that, so to work with a living composer, amazing. And hearing you describe it also is causing me to reflect, we’ve talked about this a little bit before, the last live concert I saw before we went into shelter in place for Covid was Helen Simoneau Dance and Darling, there in Winston Salem, North Carolina. And so, as I’m reflecting on the musical experience, it’s very ambient. Not, not to mean that it sounds like shuffling silverware in the background, but that it, it’s almost cinematic in its nature. That it has a, a mood and a tone that enhances the movement and your direction, rather than, than competing or driving it. You’re like, ‘This is, this is a world.’ So, it pulls you in in a way, but I don’t know I would have been able to articulate that without hearing more of how you, you started to approach it.
HELEN SIMONEAU: I love that, yeah, that was by Mary Kouyoumdjian, who I had worked with before on a very small project where we were both hired in for a, for another company. And it was really short solo. And in that case, she had made something that was fixed, and then I choreographed to it. It was a commission situation, but I, I knew I wanted to work with her again, and the right time hap, appeared and we had the funding for it, but, but that was something that I think was, is so strong in Mary’s work is that she was able to create these, this environment for intimacy. And then in some places with the violin, it was cutting through that, or, or disrupting, but never in, always a way that supports the narrative.
CHRISTY BOLINGBROKE: We have also dropped a link in the chat for a sample of Darling. Thank you for sharing that link so we could share it with our friends tuning in from home. I am curious, you brought up grants and that often has a very incongruous process with the creative process. And you have to be able to talk about the work before you've made the work often in dance making. So, I’m curious and this came up from some of our students too who feel the pressure, how do you name a dance work? Especially if it’s not done yet. How, how do you find a way to make that title?
HELEN SIMONEAU: The title is, is one of the hardest parts I find. It’s also often the last thing. It’s, it’s interesting, the, the piece I’m working on right now, I actually already had, I had a title before I had anything. But because, that’s because someone else named it for me.
CHRISTY BOLINGBROKE: Another collaborator? Someone else who offered some feedback?
HELEN SIMONEAU: A, a colleague actually. I was at, a choreographic fellow at the Ailey school and the other choreographic fellow who was there the same semester as me was Ross Daniel. And I was sharing some of my work in a showing and he was speaking about what he was seeing about the work and he said, ‘Well there’s something about,’ and he said many, many really smart things. And then he said, ‘It’s like a delicate power.’ And then actually, ‘ah, that’s it.’ And we joked about it, I was like, ‘That’s gonna be the title of my next piece.’ And it is.
CHRISTY BOLINGBROKE: And it is! Yes.
HELEN SIMONEAU: But usually I wait ‘til the end and I go through a process of conversations with the, with the dancers, with the collaborators. I try to jot down words as they make sense to me. I read about, usually my work, and my process involves some sort of reading of essays or books, or anything that has to do with some of the topics I’m delving into. And in there sometimes I can find some language that makes sense to me. It’s always hard with the title to keep it, tell people enough, but not restrict it. Keep it open for their, so they can have their own experience of the work without you pointing at specifically how they should experience it or how, what they should look for. For me anyway, that, I find that a big challenge. So, I don’t know if I have any answers for people having a hard time.
CHRISTY BOLINGBROKE: You’ve revealed so much. I think, I always like to say in our field, there's no one way of doing things, which can be super frustrating to some people, but for others, what a welcome invitation to sort of choose your own adventure. And I think that you offered a lot of different possibilities for how people might, you know, you know, tackle it next time. What I also heard is how decentralized it is, rather, and I think that speaks a lot to how you work. You’re not an artistic director that’s going to just dictate, this is how it should be and, and it’s my way or the highway, but there, it seems like such a rich invitation for what do you think? What are you thinking about and dialoguing with that too.
HELEN SIMONEAU: Yeah, I think it’s important as, as part of the process to have people come in and, and who’s, also that are maybe not collaborators. People that I trust that, other artists that come in and see the work and talk about it. And I find that those conversations can also, sometimes someone that doesn’t have intimate knowledge of the piece might be able to, to have some language that will be useful. So, there is a, I think a relying on the community a little bit, like, the group stuff that you’re working with, but then also a little further out.
CHRISTY BOLINGBROKE: So, this is ‘21st Century Dance Practices’ and NCCAkron often looks at that as the culminating knowledge that was built up in our field through most of the 20th century, at least the, the history of the dance industry and field here in this country. And how do we build off of that, where are we moving away from some of those practices? I’m curious, how do you navigate between new and old movement vocabulary, both in dialogue with the field, but also for yourself as an established artist now? When do you give yourself permission to repeat versus pushing yourself to refresh?
HELEN SIMONEAU: That is such a great question. I, I think I think about that a lot. There’s certain things I love doing with my body that come back and I’m, I’m not, I’m aware that I’m repeating the same thing and sometimes. I was just recently I was rehearsing, I was like, ‘You know, like, just do, like, that sample thing, sample Helen Simoneau.’ And dancers were laughing because they knew, they’ve worked with me before, and they knew exactly, you know, what I meant and then they were able to do it because it’s in their bodies as well. Since they, they’ve been part of the journey, but I think there is a balance of not doing the same thing because it’s worked for you in the past.And I think it changes depending on the project, like, I think when I do commissions for other companies sometimes it’s really, I don’t have as much time, the rehearsal process is shorter, sometimes I am only there for a week and so in that case I am going to pull out all of the things I can, I know I can do. My sure bets, I’m going to pull those out and put those together and then if I’m, I think if I’m researching in longer creative processes with my company, I like to take more risks and experiment more. And, and I do carry with me certain ways that have, have worked but then try to sometimes tweak it. I think, I think actually one, I’m just like thinking out loud, one way for me that I think that works is to have the base of something that is familiar and where I feel confident, but then to tweak it slightly. To see, to try it in a different way so that it’s coming from a place of, of confidence but then I can look at it differently. If that makes sense.
CHRISTY BOLINGBROKE: No, it makes lots of sense. And what I heard inside of that too is that every creative process, it isn’t one size fits all, right? The idea that you have to make a dance in a week sometimes, and so you have to start from a different palace because it’s, it’s almost like escalated. You’re like, we don’t have the time to get to know each other and you have a strong sense of awareness of what, what works. And that’s where we’re going to start. And it’s certainly not a template, or predictive, but how you have different entry points to your creative process is what comes out. I also appreciate the pressure of time because one of our other questions is like what do you do when you’re in a creative rut? You know, you’re maybe working against a deadline, maybe you got the time and space that you have, can afford this week and you don’t want to waste it. Maybe the premiere is coming up or you have some other deliverable, and the juices just aren’t flowing, it’s not working, you’re circling, you know, over and over again. Do you have any, sort of, approaches to breaking out of that rut or being nice to yourself when you’re working against a deadline?
HELEN SIMONEAU: Well, I think being nice to yourself is the first step. I do think there’s a lot to have compassion for yourself I think is huge because I, I think when something isn’t flowing, if you on top of that add, add judgement of yourself, then you’re just getting deeper and deeper into the rut. So, I think in just acknowledge, and maybe this is my meditation practice, but like if you just acknowledge what it is that’s happening without judging yourself for it, that’s one big step for me. And then I think, what I, what I like to do is break it down into, in my, in my practice of making, I do try to break things down into smaller pieces, but especially if I’m in a rut. So, if I’m in the studio and I have two hours and I have to produce something and nothing is flowing and it’s just not working or, it’s just, I’m not, not in the right headspace. I just really give myself a task, like if I was my own student in a composition class. And I give myself a task and I say, ‘Ok, by the end of this hour I will have made this.’ And it's small pieces, or I go to improvisation. Because I feel like, with improvisation I can just start, I’ll start and it will, everything will come out, will, will not be good, but eventually, if I dance for long enough, some things will unlock for me. And so, improvisation is a tool. I think I’m using it more and more actually.
CHRISTY BOLINGBROKE: There’s something in that also I think, you know, improvisation is its own practice to shut down that, that inner judgement. To be able to access that and then something else comes to mind that a momentum, you don’t, you don’t build momentum from a standstill. It’s usually something that’s already in motion, and that’s really important to just get in motion is what I’m hearing from that.
HELEN SIMONEAU: Yeah, and, and, in, in that motion you are forced to be present, and I think that's when you can, you can move forward cause you’re right, you know, if you’re lying on the ground looking at the ceiling, not a lot’s gonna happen except your mind. Your mind running over. Over and over.
CHRISTY BOLINGBROKE: Yeah. You’re just digging a deeper and deeper hole.
HELEN SIMONEAU: Yeah, I think there’s something to that, trusting the body will find its way if you just get your body involved more.
CHRISTY BOLINGBROKE: Yes, you talked a little bit about how you thought you were going to be a dancer and then having that moment and, and whether it’s getting out of one’s own way or opening yourself up to what a different definition of a future could look like. I want to invite you; how would you describe or define virtuosity in dance? Especially as you've cultivated your creative voice and vision. I think there’s a certain maturity, or maturation, in that training, right? I, I certainly remember being that teenager, it was 32 fouettes, and we talk about that in past episodes, right? Like that, it’s, it’s those moments that I think a, you know, only comes from the energy of like, ‘oh, that’s what I want to do.’ How has that definition of virtuosity changed, if it has changed or evolved for you over time?
HELEN SIMONEAU: It definitely has evolved for me. I, I do think that my training was, was, you know, a lot of Cunningham and, and ballet, and we did some Limón. And I remember thinking of virtuosity in a, a fixed goal. Like something very specific that we all understood was, if you’re doing it this way, it’s right, you’re doing it right. Or if you’re, if you’re able to do this, and it’s very measurable. If you’re able to do this, then you’re a good dancer. And feeling like I, and I worked so hard to get that training in my body. And so, it’s a complicated relationship because it can feel like, ok I have these skills, but also it can feel like an oppressive journey to get there. And so, I for a while didn’t really quite know as a maker like how I wanted to navigate that. And then also having moments where I felt like, ‘oh, if I ask, if I’m asking the dancers to do this then I’m, I’m really hurting them.’ But then dancers keep coming to me that really are doing the same, they’re doing this training and they really want to stand on one leg, and they want to twirl, and they want to do that kind of physicality. And there’s something about it that is actually quite empowering and so I think I just had to figure out just what that balance is. And also, to think of virtuosity in other ways because, and I’m thinking back to, to Darling that you mentioned earlier. In that piece there was a lot of really, like, traditionally technical things, like those dancers have a lot of skill in their body and they’re doing really physically challenging tasks that they, that they manage to do every night and a, you know, reach those places of like really, a lot of risk and then a lot of control over their bodies. But at the same time, one of the things that I feel is part of my curiosity within that type of virtuosity is the presence of the person that’s doing it. So that we’re not, I know that in my training there have been times when I’ve just let my body do it and I’m a bit absent, like I’m an empty vessel within, within that execution of dance and that feels disempowering. And I don’t know if that’s like a survival thing or what, but one of the things I, I really, we talk a lot about in terms of performance intention for the, for the dancers is that they stay really present so that they are in, they are so present that they are able to respond if anything were to be different. And there are some places where they have, they have allowances, and especially because of the, the way you described the music. There’s, it’s not counted, it’s not set in a, in a way that’s rigid, and so there’s places where, ok if you’re really feeling your leg that day, you take, you go head take longer on that and, and we will figure it out because there’s places where we can meet up. But the dancers are listening to each other and really, they’re not just looking at each other, they’re really seeing each other. And every night is the same and so, I had a dancer recently describe it as like, it’s like an hour long like intense meditation, because the level of presence required to do the piece is so high. And I think that that, being, being present like that, and being responsive in that way is such virtuosity.
CHRISTY BOLINGBROKE: Virtuosic listening with all the different elements and senses comes to mind, I love that. So great, I, I want to invite you, Helen, for our last question, in making a creative life whether we have dancers or writers or musicians, what might be a piece of advice that you would offer? Either one that you remember that’s meant a lot to you, or you can make one up on your own.
HELEN SIMONEAU: I think what’s meant a lot for me is developing a community around you. So that you’re not siloed in, in your, in your making and, and really developing relationships with people who are making work in other genres and other fields and having a chance to go see people who are creating music. Or who are working in visual art and to have those conversations. I feel like that has made, has made my creative life really rich and, I don’t know, broadening, broadening my view of what making is and what it means. Somehow felt like it was, it made me feel less self-important. I don’t know like that there’s something freeing about that, I don’t know, that everybody else is making work and everybody else is, is trying to, to really be, make the work as meaningful as they can and, and they’re doing it in such a different way and that’s so beautiful and that, I don’t know, there’s. I think there’s something about a loneliness that I’ve felt in my work. The more restrictive I was, if my friend group was just dancers, and if my friend group was just dancers that I work with then what happens when your world gets really small that way, I think things get really intense more so than they need to be. And so broadening, broadening your community. And showing up for other people.
CHRISTY BOLINGBROKE: Yeah, no, and I love that because what I hear is also it, it broadens not only the network, we often hear like networking is so important. But it’s broadening the conversation, it’s not just about that product, that latest work that you’re working on, but opening up a curiosity and living in the space of process and other people’s process of making. So, I, it’s funny you offer that up because I know you so well, I’m like, ‘oh, this is how that looks.’ So, it makes a lot of sense to me. Thank you so much for sharing. Thank you so much, have a great day and a nice weekend.
HELEN SIMONEAU: Thank you.
OUTRODUCTION: Inside the Dancer’s Studio lunchtime talk series is supported by NCCAkron, The University of Akron, The University of Akron Foundation, and the Mary Schiller Myers Lecture Series in the Arts. Our podcast program is produced by Jennifer Edwards, Ellis Rovin is our composer and editor, transcription by Madeline Greenberg, theme music by Flocco Torres, cover art by Micah Kraus, and Julian Curet and Kat Wentz are our artist coordinators. We hope you enjoyed this episode, and we encourage you to subscribe on your favorite podcast streaming platform by searching Inside the Dancer’s Studio. Thank you for listening and stay curious.