In this episode, NCCAkron’s Executive/Artistic Director, Christy Bolingbroke, enters the ‘studio’ with San Francisco California based choreographer and dancer Sean Dorsey. Dorsey creates powerful explorations of human experience through full-throttle dance, intimate storytelling, and trans-positive pedagogy.
Jennifer Edwards: Thank you for joining us for the seventh season of Inside the Dancer’s Studio where we bring listeners like you closer to the creative process. Celebrating a decade of rigorous play and positive failure, NCCAkron is an incubator and hub for dance research and development and serves as a connector, a catalyst, and a cultural matchmaker. Inside the Dancer’s Studio is recorded as an ongoing documentation practice with NCCAkron visiting artists.
Jennifer Edwards: In this episode, NCCAkron’s Executive/Artistic Director, Christy Bolingbroke, enters the ‘studio’ with San Francisco California based choreographer and dancer Sean Dorsey. Dorsey creates powerful explorations of human experience through full-throttle dance, intimate storytelling, and trans-positive pedagogy.
Christy Bolingbroke: Hey friends, Christie Bolingbroke here and I'm really excited about today's Inside The Dancer Studio Podcast guest. Welcome choreographer Sean Dorsey. In your own words, what is choreography?
Sean Dorsey: I love this question. And choreography I think is different to every human body and different, even to that particular body, on any day of our lives. So today, for me, choreography is alchemy.
Christy Bolingbroke: Mmm.
Sean Dorsey: It is much more than the sum of its parts. It is created with intention, care, trust, and vulnerability. Is an exquisitely sacred offering.
Christy Bolingbroke: It reminds me of some of the magic words that came up from that peer conversation too, which very rarely focused on, I think what a lot of people think choreography is. It's limbs, it's space, it's tricks, it's this, that, uh, and I appreciate too that it can be a shifting idea as far as a moment, uh, and who we are navigating...
Sean Dorsey: Mm-hmm.
Christy Bolingbroke:…through life and the world. 'cause change is the one constant.
Sean Dorsey: Yes.
Christy Bolingbroke: So. Take us back to maybe the first time, when did you first call yourself a choreographer?
Sean Dorsey: Oh, goodness. So I definitely did not ever as a young person, envision myself as a choreographer or set out to be a choreographer. And I think I made work for some time before that moniker even felt semi comfortable for me to claim.
Christy Bolingbroke: Hmm. Hmm.
Sean Dorsey: Maybe that's all of us, like imposter syndrome as artists.
Christy Bolingbroke: Mm-hmm.
Sean Dorsey: Um, and I think especially as a trans person…
Christy Bolingbroke: Mmm.
Sean Dorsey:…um, so because my first love was being in my body dancing and I was always creating, but my creation was much more focused on, I mean. Improvisationally moving, yes. But in terms of craft, it was much more around written poems and written stories and composing music...
Christy Bolingbroke: Mm-hmm.
Sean Dorsey:…music and playing composed music. Um, and it was really the very deeply felt absence of people like me on the stage that became the fire in my belly that drove me to want to craft dances…
Christy Bolingbroke: Hmm.
Sean Dorsey:…that spoke to me and my people's experiences or bodies or histories or lives. Um, so I kind of came to that word or identity through like a side door.
Christy Bolingbroke: Mm-hmm.
Sean Dorsey: But, um, love it, feel so blessed, feel like it's my calling and whether we come in the front door or the side door or the skylight, you know?
Christy Bolingbroke:Yeah.
Sean Dorsey: We can come to our calling in many ways and just feel so richly blessed that this is my life. How…
Christy Bolingbroke:Yeah.
Sean Dorsey:…lucky am I.
Christy Bolingbroke: It reminds so much that I think one of dance's largest challenges, especially in the US, is the relationship to the body. If people are not in their body. Come to my dance show can still be one of the scariest invitations [laughs].
Sean Dorsey: Absolutely.
Christy Bolingbroke: We're not, you know, and they're, but they just, the unknown where they're like, will there be audience participation? Will I be comfortable watching other people's bodies?
Sean Dorsey: Totally.
Christy Bolingbroke: And so to sort of highlight that, that can also be the artist's challenge.
Sean Dorsey: Mm-hmm.
Christy Bolingbroke: What is your relationship to your body and then is this a tool that you want to exercise and utilize to tell your story to be representative on stage. I'm gonna circle back to the words.
Sean Dorsey: Mm.
Christy Bolingbroke: Because what I love about this podcast is that I learned so much. No one artist makes work like the next.
Sean Dorsey: Mm-hmm.
Christy Bolingbroke: So where do you begin? Does that start still from a place of writing?
Sean Dorsey: Mm-hmm.
Christy Bolingbroke: And if not. When might the writing become a part of your practice?
Sean Dorsey: Mmm.
Christy Bolingbroke: Because I'm, I'm offering a big hypothesis there [Dorsey laughs], but I'm, I'm guessing it is a part of your practice, especially having seen your work.
Sean Dorsey: So my work, always has some engine of language embedded in it, whether that is a speaking on stage, whether that's story in prerecorded sound score or whether that's choreography that like right now as we're having this conversation…
Christy Bolingbroke: Mm-hmm.
Sean Dorsey:…my dancers are in the studio, just down the hall, um, working on movement generation using some written prompts of mine. And then those live in their bodies and are expressed through movement, and it might be the movement that ends up being on the stage without the, the words.
Christy Bolingbroke: Even if it's not spoken.
Sean Dorsey: Yeah. So where does it begin? For me, the most unconscious way the work starts is actually in the previous work of mine that there are like unanswered questions or a spark of a question that begins. So…
Christy Bolingbroke: Yeah. b…but I'm much less conscious of that until I may be partway through the process. And the work always begins for me, both with music and yes, with a lot of writing and a lot of reading. And then also a lot of like looking at visual art, looking at a lot of painting especially, and sculpture, are really resonant, rich sources of inspiration for me. I'll always say that I probably literally fill up 30 notebooks for a new project, before I even maybe know what the heck I'm doing.
Christy Bolingbroke: Oh my goodness. Let's get you a notebook sponsor.
[Both laugh]
Sean Dorsey: Totally. Yes. Literally. So a lot of writing and then a lot of, um, listening to music and then working with the composers I get to, I'm so blessed to collaborate with for our last project, The Lost Art of Dreaming, you know, that magical liminal moment when the, you're in the theater and the lights are going down and the orchestra starts warming up and there's that single [sings a note].
Christy Bolingbroke: Mm-hmm.
Sean Dorsey: They all agree on.
Christy Bolingbroke: Mm-hmm.
Sean Dorsey: So I gave that as a prompt to the brilliant composer Anna Mibel, that I'm so blessed to, work with. And they took that and we had some back and forth iterations, and that whole track was composed before I brought it into the studio with my dancers.
Christy Bolingbroke: Hmm.
Sean Dorsey: Um, much of the time I will have written text, even recorded a draft if there's text in that section, or have myself the written narrative or imagery or abstract text that's gonna inform me, uh, without us hearing it. Um, uh, I, we'll almost certainly have the music that I'm interested in working with for that section. Um, but I also often won't play it when we generate movement. And I'm totally now getting on a tangent further into the process.
Christy Bolingbroke: Nooo.
Sean Dorsey: But how, how, how it has sparked is, is all these things. So it's like, you know, I filled up 12 notebooks of writing while listening to music, while I'm meeting with composers. Um, having been to many galleries and spent time looking at paintings or looking at paintings while listening to drafts of tracks for my composers. Um, and then there's also like little bits of dancing around in my living room and recording myself doing goofy experiments of little nuggets of what I imagined growing into, um, kind of movement, movement vocabulary or themes for a section.
Christy Bolingbroke: To reflect on what you shared there is so much inside of that when I think about, certainly reaffirming what I subscribe to, that everything an artist makes is somehow related to their previous work and will somehow be related to their next work, whether they know it or not.
Sean Dorsey: Totally. Yes.
Christy Bolingbroke: 'cause you are the same body and thinker and you're sort of holding that as a continuous vessel or griot through that experience.
Sean Dorsey: Yes.
Christy Bolingbroke: Um, I was going to inquire about how you would characterize your relationship to sound. 'cause what I also heard was this sort of amalgamation of layering and iterativeness and it's definitely not a linear process.
Sean Dorsey: Oh, no.
Christy Bolingbroke: And I think some of our…
Sean Dorsey: Sometimes I'm like, if only…[laughs].
Christy Bolingbroke: If only, if only it was just a formula, a recipe. Yes.
Sean Dorsey: I have things to say already, but I'm gonna let you finish the question…
Christy Bolingbroke: And so I'm really curious how you continue to navigate a relationship to sound. That it doesn't sound, that it's formulaic, that there's spaciousness to accumulate over time and ultimately how do you know when something is finished?
Sean Dorsey: Yes. Oh my goodness. Well, to answer your last question first, I feel like so often my answer to things is like my gut just knows, which is a totally not helpful answer,
Christy Bolingbroke: But so artistic.
[Both laugh]
Sean Dorsey: But it's just true. It's like when all the like parts of your gut and heart and spirit are like [makes a sound] and kind of align.
Christy Bolingbroke: Yes.
Sean Dorsey: And no one can see the body movements I'm doing, but all the things kind of like…
Christy Bolingbroke: Yes, but it's like the vertebras just align [makes a sound].
Sean Dorsey: Yes, exactly. Yes. And they're aligned. And I know one of the things you ask about, is, you know, advice for someone entering a, making practice…
Christy Bolingbroke: Mm-hmm.
Sean Dorsey:…At whatever age. And so I'm thinking about the, an example, where all of us, yes, like there's, there's a pop song we love or some whatever, some song we have a really,
Christy Bolingbroke: It speaks to your heart.
Sean Dorsey: It speaks to your heart, and it like, makes you feel the feels and, um, just makes you feel generative and creative. And something I would say to someone beginning a practice or exploring new ways in their practice of making is, if I were to generalize or centralize, which is dangerous, I would say, I would not recommend letting the length of that song dictate the length of that dance. The length of a dance needs to be the length of whatever that story is. Now. A story meaning expressing an idea.
Christy Bolingbroke: Mm-hmm.
Sean Dorsey: Story meaning, um, writing the arc of, an emotion into a conclusion or emotion into a question, whatever, whatever the thing is you're trying to express needs to dictate the shape and length of the thing. People will select a 19 minute. Song or, or suite of songs they're just in love with and it's like, the piece feels too long.
Christy Bolingbroke: Mm-hmm.
Sean Dorsey: Because they're making it to fill up the music.
Christy Bolingbroke: Yeah.
Sean Dorsey: Versus the story that I'm creating needs to be this length.
Christy Bolingbroke: Mm-hmm.
Sean Dorsey: Which is almost always shorter than the piece of music you're in love with.
Christy Bolingbroke: We had dinner last night with your dancers and we were talking about like, I will sit through two hours if it's compelling. But then you have to come back to the choreographer. Is it a two hour idea?
Sean Dorsey: Yes. That's totally it. Yeah. So is that a 19 minute idea if you love that 19 minute song?
Christy Bolingbroke: Mm-hmm.
Sean Dorsey: And if it's not recommending either working with Garage Band that comes free on your laptop, or a friend who has access to some sound software.
Christy Bolingbroke: Right.
Sean Dorsey: And editing that down to the length of your idea.
Christy Bolingbroke: Make friends with talented musicians.
Sean Dorsey: Absolutely. Here, here's this gem of an idea that I love in this song. Can you create something that not 19 minutes
Christy Bolingbroke: Right
Sean Dorsey:…or two hours and 11 minutes.
Christy Bolingbroke: Yeah, it, and I'm still stuck on your relationship to sound. And one of the things that I have also appreciate about the work I've gotten to see of yours, um, whether it's the Secret History of Love or the Missing Generation, is that it almost feels,documentary because you are uplifting other people's stories from the LGBTQIA community and history. So I'm curious, how was your process when you are also holding other people, telling their stories and the documentation of that, how did that start to sort of inform the sound score?
Sean Dorsey: Those two pieces were part of a trilogy of works that I created that were seeking to uncover, unbury parts of LGBTQI plus histories that have been censored or buried or forgotten. So the Missing Generation, I recorded 75 hours of oral histories, I did not set out to record 75 hours, but, um, it was such an incredible, over a year, about a year and a half of this process of getting travel to different cities, and talking to long time survivors from that early part of the AIDS epidemic. First recording the 75 hours of people's stories, and I'll actually just insert that, that was an important part of the project. So it was, this all wasn't, um, in service of like making a show for the stage. So for me, part of my social practice was wanting to show up for survivors and sit at a table just like this with very similar microphones. I didn't have the fancy wind guard.
Christy Bolingbroke: Technology.
Sean Dorsey: But I had a plate of cookies and tissues, which were always used just no for the
Christy Bolingbroke: Note for the file. We need cookies.
Sean Dorsey: And cookies. Yeah. Just showing up for survivors and listening and witnessing stories that every single person I talked to was like, no one's asked me about this for 30 years. I have locked this away and repressed this because it, there was so much trauma and so much pain and loss…
Christy Bolingbroke: Hmm.
Sean Dorsey:…that I didn't, I couldn't look at this, you know, so just creating a space for that kind of unlocking of trauma and a space to hold it and witness it, with permission and trust to then share parts of those stories through a work on stage. Just sharing that, that that's part of that was, that was a thing in itself
Christy Bolingbroke: Right.
Sean Dorsey: That wasn't only in service of like extracting, you know, it wasn't an extractive or, um, and then still working toward archiving these so that they're available as a resource for many, many people in the future. So then, um I spent more than I stopped clocking at 500 hours…
Christy Bolingbroke: Hmm.
Sean Dorsey:…that I spent listening and listening and listening to these stories, making I think over 60 different Word documents that might have been themed.
Christy Bolingbroke: This is long before AI transcripting.
Sean Dorsey: Oh my goodness. I still, I refuse the AI, I do not welcome AI. My, I, I don't judge, but I'm AI free in my creative process. So it's true long before anyone could sort and file or…
Christy Bolingbroke: Mm-hmm.
Sean Dorsey:…some robot owned by Zuckerberg or whoever could do that for me. Then I was terrified frozen on how on earth, who am I to do this? How on earth can I do justice to these incredibly sacred, precious offerings? People have opened up so deeply and want so much for these stories to be shared with their peers…
Christy Bolingbroke: Mm-hmm.
Sean Dorsey:…younger generations so the, how there was a lot of anxiety, depression, self-questioning.
Christy Bolingbroke: Right. It's a, not only an iterative process, but it's, it's also one you, you with yourself as the vessel. And I'm thinking about your definition of choreography.
Sean Dorsey: Mm-hmm.
Christy Bolingbroke: And alchemy two too inside of this.
Sean Dorsey: Yeah.
Christy Bolingbroke: You know, like, I like to say that particularly contemporary dance artists is not an aesthetic. It means it is, artists who make work about living in contemporary times.
Sean Dorsey: Hmm. Hmm.
Christy Bolingbroke: So much of what you shared though expanded it. I'm glad we got to hear about your social practice. 'cause your work has always been bigger than just your latest dance piece.
Sean Dorsey: Right.
Christy Bolingbroke: Whether it's through the Fresh Meat Festival, and the, you know, the community that you have continued to build and develop in the San Francisco Bay area and wherever you've toured.
Sean Dorsey: Right.
Christy Bolingbroke: Thinking about that community. And yes, it's Sean Dorsey dance, but you also bring dancers into this process. So with this kind of intimacy and tenderness…
Sean Dorsey: Hmm. Mm-hm.
Christy Bolingbroke:…that you've been describing, when you are making a work, what do you look for in dancers?
Sean Dorsey: Mm-hmm. If you have seen some of my work, you know that I work with dancers who are technically exquisite are gorgeous movers, technically gorgeous, agile. So that's kind of all like a given for me.
Christy Bolingbroke: That's the minimum.
Sean Dorsey: That's the minimum, but what's what's, you know, so that's a minimum. What's most important, 'cause my work is very collaborative and so, collaborating with artists who, (A) have a deep understanding of creating and performing work as a human. So I'm not looking for technician kind of, technician empty vessels who will execute movement.
Christy Bolingbroke: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Sean Dorsey: Which I know some modern dance is very much of that. So many different dance forms, the bodies might be interchangeable. Like, oh, I could do an audition and some new casting and just swap out folks.
Christy Bolingbroke: Hmm.
Sean Dorsey: Whereas, um, it's, this is about choosing collaborators who bring such a maturity of presence with their humanity, emotionality, in the work, on stage. So, you know, we're always aware that we're watching humans, like how the life in someone's eyes and their depth of focus, those are depth of focus and eye focus are huge in my choreography, actually. That's something that I'll often choreograph.
Christy Bolingbroke: Mm.
Sean Dorsey: Um, not inauthentically, but that kind of, um…
Christy Bolingbroke: Attention is given.
Sean Dorsey: Yes, absolutely. I feel like so much modern dance dancers are kind of. They have to shut off their humanity and do that kind of glazed...
Christy Bolingbroke: Mm-hmm.
Sean Dorsey: Neither here nor [laughs]...
Christy Bolingbroke: Well, especially in postmodernism.
Sean Dorsey: Yeah. Which is like, and that, and that's great. And that's over there. I know we,
Christy Bolingbroke: That's a different aesthetic.
Sean Dorsey: Totally. I am like interested in humans who are feeling feelings in order that we can transform audiences. And our risk and vulnerability allows audiences to also crack open and experience that amongst themselves. Between each other with us. So, um, real maturity of performance presence, um, and real maturity of communication style…
Christy Bolingbroke: Hmm.
Sean Dorsey:…meaning in the studio, in collaboration folks who yeah, have maturity of communication in terms of expressing ideas, expressing a difference in ideas…
Christy Bolingbroke: Mm-hmm.
Sean Dorsey:…able to stay grounded in communication through differences, able to really come from a heart-centered place of kindness. Kindness is like my number one rule. I always say that when I teach, it's like number one rule is kindness to yourself…
Christy Bolingbroke: Mmm.
Sean Dorsey:…kindness to each other. There's so much. Mistreatment of dancers and I, you know, the same, I'm sure it goes in theater.
Christy Bolingbroke: Mm-hmm.
Sean Dorsey: So that there's like the director who holds the power and you can say and treat others, you know, however, um, and it's like the dance studio should be a microcosm of the liberated world we're seeking to be part of building.
Christy Bolingbroke: Mmm.
Sean Dorsey: You know, my work, I, I hope is in service of a liberated future.
Christy Bolingbroke: Mm-hmm.
Sean Dorsey: And so too must our process be, which I feel like is I did not always experience as a dancer.
Christy Bolingbroke: Yeah.
Sean Dorsey: And that's incredibly important to me. And because my work, you know, some of those past works that you talked about had a documentary process to them based in oral histories or archival research there have been processes where we offered our own stories on lives, but there's such a deep level of trust and risk and vulnerability required. To collaborate in my work that I have to show up with that container of softness and flexibility and kindness.
Christy Bolingbroke: Mm-hmm.
Sean Dorsey: Or you can't generate that kind of trust…
Christy Bolingbroke: Yeah.
Sean Dorsey:…in order to do that really deeply human work that sometimes is really painful. We laugh a lot in the Sean Dorsey Dance Studio.
Christy Bolingbroke: Alright.
Sean Dorsey: Or in the Sean Dorsey dance van on tour.
Christy Bolingbroke: Yes.
Sean Dorsey: Laughter is super important. And just flexibility like showing up as full humans. If someone has an injury or is exhausted or is grieving, you know, that's, that's the human that I'm collaborating with. And for them not to just check all that at the door, you know?
Christy Bolingbroke: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Sean Dorsey: To show up as our full selves.
Christy Bolingbroke: I think what you're describing and I, I do believe that it is getting better, but it is the shift between my description of what a 20th century dance making environment and field is.
Sean Dorsey: Absolutely.
Christy Bolingbroke: And the 21st century. And, and you're really right on the cusp, right? Sean Dorsey dance is 20, 25 years old.
Sean Dorsey: Yes.
Christy Bolingbroke: Yeah.
Sean Dorsey:Yes. Yes.
Christy Bolingbroke: Uh, and. That's kind of exactly where we are.
Sean Dorsey: Right.
Christy Bolingbroke: So you, you know, old enough to know how it used to be to want to do better and differently moving forward.
Sean Dorsey: Yes. You're here.
Christy Bolingbroke: And then as you're describing it too, I'm thinking like you're talking about workplace culture, right?
Sean Dorsey: Yes.
Christy Bolingbroke: Whether it's an office or a studio or the tour van. That's something else that a leader does and a choreographer. Also has to be a leader even in a collaborative environment.
Sean Dorsey: Absolutely. Yeah.
Christy Bolingbroke: You know, setting the tone for that. I'm really curious thinking about your toolkit then, so when it's not happening. When that's the time you have time in the studio or you, you know, have a deadline and the show has a date and a theater, and you're like…
Sean Dorsey: Aaaah.
Christy Bolingbroke:...we still have to find a way forward, but the muses are not singing…
Sean Dorsey: Woooh!
Christy Bolingbroke:…you know, it's just not coming through. Do you have any practices that you do to sort of reset, regroup, or just muscle through?
Sean Dorsey: Hmm. You know, there are artists who talk about, you know, never having, never having a day where they have writer's block or they never run out of ideas. And I'm like, who, who are these magical creatures of another?
Christy Bolingbroke: [Laughs] They're lying. They're lying.
Sean Dorsey: They're lying. I agree. So my beloved partner of 23 years, Shauna Virago, who is also a trans artist, she's a singer or songwriter.
Christy Bolingbroke: Mm-hmm.
Sean Dorsey: Is such a great coach for me, at all times. And then in those times when I am really discouraged or exhausted or just feeling like I'm up against a brick wall and she's just always says, you know what? You just have to show up.
Christy Bolingbroke: Hmm.
Sean Dorsey: You just gotta keep doing the practice, you know? So it's really easy to want to. Stop.
Christy Bolingbroke: Mm-hmm.
Sean Dorsey: And shut down and fold inward and hide away under the blankets.
Christy Bolingbroke: Mm.
Sean Dorsey: Um, which sometimes actually is the right thing to do. It's like, it's also okay.
Christy Bolingbroke: It's what the body's telling you it needs.
Sean Dorsey: Absolutely.
Christy Bolingbroke: Yeah.
Sean Dorsey: Sometimes like, so I definitely don't, I'm not about muscling through for sure. That's not my jam. Nor would I encourage that in the Sean Dorsey Dance Studio. Um, and there's also something about showing up for the muse, you know?
Christy Bolingbroke: Mm. Mm-hmm.
Sean Dorsey: Um. Unfortunately we can't dictate or predict when the creative spark and, you know, sacred electricity arrives.
Christy Bolingbroke: Mm-hmm.
Sean Dorsey: And so, um, my partner just talks, you know, you just gotta show up at the desk or show up in the studio and yeah, there's those flat empty days. I got nothing. Here comes the deadline and then, but when you show up is making space for, you know, the electricity to spark.
Christy Bolingbroke: What I also hear in showing up that is very identifiable, I think in dance is momentum.
Mmm.
Christy Bolingbroke: And momentum comes at a lot of different speeds. But it is definitely easier to go with momentum, even if it's slow going than to completely stop and try to pick up again from a standstill.
Sean Dorsey: Right. Totally.
Christy Bolingbroke: We understand momentum as dancers and sometimes showing up is the minimum that we can do to keep momentum.
Sean Dorsey: Right, right.
Christy Bolingbroke: Yeah. Just continue to move forward. Don't have to work.
Sean Dorsey: Yes.
Christy Bolingbroke:You know, muscle through it.
Sean Dorsey: Yeah.
Christy Bolingbroke: You know, enforce it. But yes, I like this idea of you gotta keep showing up.
Sean Dorsey: Yeah. And staying open. So like you said, not muscling through might be like, I do need to daydream in bad with a book of poetry.
Christy Bolingbroke: Mm-hmm.
Sean Dorsey: But that's still just leaving yourself open. Also, what for me is such a huge gift is my collaborators.
Christy Bolingbroke: Mm-hmm.
Sean Dorsey: So the days when I'm like discouraged, I'm running on empty.
Christy Bolingbroke: Mmm.
Sean Dorsey: Getting to work with my beloved family, my collaborating dancers, who someone else in the room has a spark, you know, based on something we're building or a prompt I have. You know, and I may just be feeling so flat and empty and exhausted that day, but then they create this exquisite movement or duet material…
Christy Bolingbroke: Mm.
Sean Dorsey:…that then just gets me going, you know?
Christy Bolingbroke: It gives you more momentum.
Sean Dorsey: Yes, totally. Like…
Christy Bolingbroke: Fans the flame.
Sean Dorsey: Totally.
Christy Bolingbroke: Yeah.
Sean Dorsey: Or same with my composers. Like, I'll receive in the email a new track by one of the composers I'm working with, and…Ahhh.
Christy Bolingbroke: Unlock.
Sean Dorsey: Yeah. Unlock. And then I suddenly, I see in the on, I see the lights and the costume, and I see it all, and it, you know.
Christy Bolingbroke: Mm.
Sean Dorsey: So, collaboration is such a gift that way that you're not just alone in a room, you know, hitting your head against the wall, trying to make the thing.
Christy Bolingbroke: I mean, that's what I hear both in what you shared about your relationship with Shauna as a, as a coach and, and, and, and there as a to commiserate to…
Sean Dorsey: Yes.
Christy Bolingbroke: But also with your collaborators is community.
Sean Dorsey: Totally. Yes.
Christy Bolingbroke: And I think that that might also be a 20th century trope, the idea of the tortured single artist perpetuating…
Sean Dorsey: [laughs] Right.
Christy Bolingbroke:…you know, that someone has to go off into the woods. We like the woods.
Sean Dorsey: Right.
Christy Bolingbroke: But you don't have to do it alone.
Sean Dorsey: Totally. Why do it? You have to be miserable alone.
Christy Bolingbroke: You don't have to be miserable alone.
Sean Dorsey: Yeah.
Christy Bolingbroke: And, and so I think that also you've revealed a lot to us about how you have, uh, navigated this field and the longevity of the career that you have by creating community.
Sean Dorsey: Mm-hmm.
Christy Bolingbroke: Both on stage and off.
Sean Dorsey: Right.
Christy Bolingbroke: I'm curious, as a person of many words, how do you tackle the creative challenge to title something?
Sean Dorsey: Almost all the time titles have come to me first.
Christy Bolingbroke: Mm.
Sean Dorsey:Which is really interesting. So the Missing Generation, for example, the previous project was The Secret History of Love and I had the great privilege of recording oral histories with LGBTQI plus elders and seniors asked them about their lives and how on earth they found love and community decades ago and navigated law enforcement and gathering underground in illegal speakeasies in clubs and on and on. And during that process, they became very aware that there was a whole generation I couldn't interview because we had lost so many folks
Christy Bolingbroke: Hmm.
Sean Dorsey:…in the early AIDS epidemic. , the title came to me, the Missing Generation. The title came first, and actually what I thought I was being called to do was to try to document stories from folks about folks we lost.
Christy Bolingbroke: Mm-hmm.
Sean Dorsey: So I thought the work would be about lifting up the folks we were missing, the folks we lost, and then immediately upon my first pre, pre oral history, interview conversations I had with folks before we met to actually record things. I got, there was so much, that our culture had just turned our back on all these survivors…
Christy Bolingbroke: Hmm.
Sean Dorsey:…who were just living with all this locked in trauma. And then none of us asking about, or being curious about or offering any healing around or offering to keep that history alive and remember and teach our, um, descendants about. So the title was clear, but the content actually shifted. I was like, oh, I'm being called to show up as a witness and to support these survivors.
Christy Bolingbroke: Mm-hmm.
Sean Dorsey: So same with The Lost Art of Dreaming, that title came to me first. So and that's true also even of often of short pieces that the title will come first for whatever reason. Sometimes with a very clear sense of content and sometimes like, I don't know what the heck this is, but this is what is being called to come out of me [laughs].
Christy Bolingbroke: I mean, I feel. Just, just in the short time you've been here on the ground, we're about halfway through, uh, your creative residency and you have taught me so much, and the team, when it's like, oh, creative residency doesn't just have to be working towards a finished product. It's become much more retreat-like, spacious to say, actually, we are not gonna come into the studio today, or we're gonna explore this cool thing and being together.
Sean Dorsey: Mm-hmm.
Christy Bolingbroke: Maybe more tour van times [Dorsey laughs] to, to inform the what that this might be
Sean Dorsey: Absolutely.
Christy Bolingbroke: Coming in.
Sean Dorsey: Absolutely.
Christy Bolingbroke: And be a part of.
Sean Dorsey: I think it's, um, again, that the kind of, the more old fashioned expectation that we kind of hunker down and hunkering down is totally part of the process.
Christy Bolingbroke: Yeah.
Sean Dorsey:There's a part we're like hunkering down.
Christy Bolingbroke: It is work.
Sean Dorsey: And generating. Totally. It's like It is. Yes. Let there be no illusion [Bolingbroke laughs] . It is a lot of really hard work. There's grunt work. There's hard work.
Christy Bolingbroke: Yeah.
Sean Dorsey: Yes. And part of, not just at the beginning of the work, but all throughout the cycles within making it work. For me is like constantly needing to refill the well.
Christy Bolingbroke: Mm.
Sean Dorsey: And so it's like that, creative fueling, it's constantly like for us as a family of collaborators, so we haven't been together in person. For a couple of months.
Christy Bolingbroke: Mm.
Sean Dorsey: Uh, my mom passed unexpectedly during a journey with cancer. And so I had to leave and we've not been together. And so having this time to reconnect and get to like, be in the woods and be in beautiful nature sharing meals together, this is all a part of building the, the trust and, that iterative energy that then we are in the studio today creating work. But for me it's all generative and it's all fueling the process. And so that, the fueling time, the fallow time…
Christy Bolingbroke: Mm-hmm.
Sean Dorsey: That kind of retreat time is so generative and is so necessary to fuel the like, okay, You know?
Christy Bolingbroke: And, and how beautiful to hear you reflect. And I'm reminded what you shared earlier about what you look for in dancers that also can be human. And the fact that you have a community…
Sean Dorsey: Mm-hmm.
Christy Bolingbroke: In your cast…
Sean Dorsey: Mm-hmm.
Christy Bolingbroke: Who can also receive you the choreographer as a human
Sean Dorsey: Yes.
Christy Bolingbroke: In this moment.
Sean Dorsey: Right.
Christy Bolingbroke: It's just wanna reflect that back to you.
Sean Dorsey: Thank you. Thank you. Yeah. And it is such a gift that, um, even though I always. I am in a leadership position that I can also be a human.
Yeah.
Sean Dorsey: And be, you know, be in my grief or, um, and that grief process is shifting what this new work is about.
Christy Bolingbroke: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Sean Dorsey: And will inform it and yeah.
Christy Bolingbroke: Because you are making work about the times and you know places and…
Sean Dorsey:That's right.
Christy Bolingbroke: The people that we are.
Sean Dorsey: That's right.
Christy Bolingbroke: I have one last question, Sean.
Sean Dorsey: I'm excited for it.
Christy Bolingbroke: If you would like to pass on the greatest piece of advice you received in navigating a creative life.
Sean Dorsey: Mmm.
Christy Bolingbroke: Or if you have a piece of advice that you'd wish to pass on.
Sean Dorsey: Mm-hmm.
Christy Bolingbroke: And even if you made it up yourself though, this is a moment of paying it forward.
Sean Dorsey: I'm still not great at practicing, but which I can offer as advice, is the piece around fallow and refueling and the importance of nourishment and rest
Christy Bolingbroke: Hmmm.
Sean Dorsey: And, um. I feel this as someone who's a leader in my company, but who also founded a nonprofit 25 years ago and has held that artistic director, executive director hat, um, and to live a sustainable life as a creator or in the nonprofit arts world…
Christy Bolingbroke: Hmm.
Sean Dorsey: um, you need periods of rest. Get the book Pleasure Activism by adrienne maree brown.
Christy Bolingbroke: Okay, Pleasure Activism.
Sean Dorsey: Yes, Pleasure Activism.
Christy Bolingbroke: I haven't heard that yet. Okay.
Sean Dorsey: Huuuh. Get it. Get it today. Um, yeah, so rest, pleasure, joy, play such important parts, not just the bearing down. So like the…
Christy Bolingbroke: laughter in the tour van.
Sean Dorsey: Yes.
Christy Bolingbroke: Hmm.
Sean Dorsey: There's gotta be naps, there's gotta be like ice cream sundaes. These are all part of the creative process, not just the bearing down and the whatnot. Um, and then maybe also just thinking about folks like me, who, whatever it is about your experience or your body that makes you feel different or like you don't belong in dance, finding folks like you now, there is the
Christy Bolingbroke: Mm-hmm.
Sean Dorsey: There is the social media. So if you can find a mirror where there's folks like you moving or making, um, that can help you to not feel so alone in it.
Christy Bolingbroke: Mm. There's, there's something particularly in, in intersecting or weaving two of those pieces of advice. Finding folks so you don't have to be alone and showing up.
Sean Dorsey: I'll repeat and share my partner Shauna Virago’s advice as, and I have two pieces of advice…
Christy Bolingbroke: She is very wise.
Sean Dorsey: Again, to just to show, to just show up.
Christy Bolingbroke: Mm-hmm.
Sean Dorsey: So, um, to know that maybe there are those rare birds who wake up every day feeling excited and positive and like overflowing with ideas for the studio.
Christy Bolingbroke: Don't believe them on social media.
Sean Dorsey: Don't believe them on social media. You know, everyone, everyone lives their best life on social media, even if secretly they're depressed, anxious, directionless, et cetera. So in real life, creation is hard. Like there's a lot of hard, there's, there's moments of. There can be long periods of blockage or uncertainty. Certainly questioning yourself, questioning your choices, and I think just staying the course and showing up for your muse, showing up for the process. So keep showing up and showing up. I know that the creative muse will not always be, will not always be felt in full force, but it's there.
Jennifer Edwards: Inside the Dancer’s Studio Conversation Series is produced by NCCAkron supported in part by Audio-Technica, a global audio manufacturer with U.S. headquarters in Northeast Ohio.' Our podcast program is produced by Lisa Niedermeyer of Handmade Future Studio. Rahsaan Cruz is our audio engineer, with transcription by Arushi Singh, theme music by Floco Torres, and cover art by Micah Kraus. Special thanks to Laura Ellacott, Nakiasha Moore-Dunson, Dante Fields, Jen Garlando, and Mariclare Hulbert. To learn more about NCCAkron, please visit us online at nccakron.org. And follow us on Instagram or Facebook at NCCAkron. We hope you enjoyed this episode, and we encourage you to subscribe on your favorite podcast streaming platform by searching for Inside the Dancer’s Studio. Thanks for listening and stay curious.