In this episode, NCCAkron's Executive/Artistic Director, Christy Bolingbroke enters the 'studio' with Portland, OR and Boston, MA- based multidisciplinary artist and choreographer, Takahiro Yamamoto. His current conceptual investigations revolve around the phenomenological effects of time, the embodied approach to the presence of nothingness, and the social/emotional implications of visibility. His performance and visual art works have been presented at Portland Art Museum, Diverseworks, and GoDown Arts Centre Nairobi, among others. Yamamoto, is currently a visiting professor at Studio for Interrelated Media at Massachusetts College of Art and Design in Boston, MA.
In this episode, NCCAkron's Executive/Artistic Director, Christy Bolingbroke enters the 'studio' with Portland, OR and Boston, MA- based multidisciplinary artist and choreographer, Takahiro Yamamoto. His current conceptual investigations revolve around the phenomenological effects of time, the embodied approach to the presence of nothingness, and the social/emotional implications of visibility. His performance and visual art works have been presented at Portland Art Museum, Diverseworks, and GoDown Arts Centre Nairobi, among others. Yamamoto, is currently a visiting professor at Studio for Interrelated Media at Massachusetts College of Art and Design in Boston, MA.
INTRODUCTION: Thanks for joining us Inside The Dancer’s Studio, where we bring listeners like you closer to the creative process. Inside The Dancer’s Studio is a program of the National Center for Choreography in Akron, Ohio, as part of our Ideas in Motion initiative. This episode was recorded as an ongoing documentation practice with NCCAkron visiting artists in 2023-2024. Today we joined Christy Bolingbroke, our Executive/Artistic Director, in conversation with Portland, OR and Boston, MA- based multidisciplinary artist and choreographer, Takahiro Yamamoto. Yamamoto’s current conceptual investigations revolve around the phenomenological effects of time, the embodied approach to the presence of nothingness, and the social/emotional implications of visibility. His performance and visual art works have been presented at Portland Art Museum, Diverseworks, and GoDown Arts Centre Nairobi, among others. He is currently a visiting professor at Studio for Interrelated Media at Massachusetts College of Art and Design in Boston.
CHRISTY BOLINGBROKE: How or when did you decide to become a choreographer?
TAKAHIRO YAMAMOTO: I was trained in physical theater, in classical theater in my 20s (Bolingbroke: Mm-hmm). And I hit a wall quite often because of how I sound and what I look like. So towards the end of my 20s, I started to make my own work. And because my accent was such an issue in theater, that I started moving (Bolingbroke: Wow), using my body to do stuff (Bolingbroke: I didn’t know that). Yeah, and also, I was collaborating with this beautiful theater artist and performer, Ben Evans, around that time. And he was interested in non-narrative driven performance (Bolingbroke: Mm-hmm) work, and that includes dance. So he was exposing me to different things. And when I was 29-30, my dear friend, Jimmy James, who is a choreographer based in Los Angeles, she invited me to her piece. Very highly technical dance piece. So I said, Yes. But I did a lot of individual rehearsal, because I couldn't get all the dance moves (Bolingbroke: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm). So I gave her a hard time with it. But that's the beginning of my dance career.
CHRISTY BOLINGBROKE: When would you say that you made your first piece?
TAKAHIRO YAMAMOTO: My first piece was called Postal Experience. It includes 12 to 13 smaller sculpture pieces with video and solo dance performance with a musician. And it was improvisational performance. That was my first piece. I did it at this empty retail space that the developer was opening up for artists.
CHRISTY BOLINGBROKE: Was that still in Los Angeles or in Portland?
TAKAHIRO YAMAMOTO: It was in downtown Los Angeles
CHRISTY BOLINGBROKE: Coming to dance as a physical theater practitioner, and it sounds like even with your first work, Postal Experience, uh that it's always been multidisciplinary, multimedia. How would you describe your relationship to music and sound? And, and where does it start to factor into your process? Is it something you begin with? Is it something that comes later? Can you take us through some of that?
TAKAHIRO YAMAMOTO: Music to me is a very scary thing. So I don't touch it usually. It's scary because it has so much impact. And it colors, your mood. It tells me how I feel. And I learned this through theater training, how music is being used. And it just, it's such a potent element in my performance. So I as a choreographer and maker, I feel powerless over it (laughs) So after the Postal Experience, I think most of my work didn't have any music involved I just wanted to have the, the movement and dance to have its own power by itself. And see what it does. And I questioned that in 2015, why I'm afraid of it. So I decided to work with a music. So I happened to be in New York around that time. So I went to what’s that place, the library in Lincoln Center?
CHRISTY BOLINGBROKE: Oh, the Jerome Robbins Dance Division at the New York Public Library.
TAKAHIRO YAMAMOTO: Yes, thank you for knowing…(laughs).
CHRISTY BOLINGBROKE: That’s what I'm here for.
TAKAHIRO YAMAMOTO: That’s amazing. So I was there. And I got myself there maybe two or three times a week.
TAKAHIRO YAMAMOTO: So I was looking at Balanchine (Bolingbroke: Mm-hmm) and Anne Teresa De Keersmaeker (Bolingbroke: Sure), uh Mark Morris (Bolingbroke: Mm-hmm) and other people and see what is the relationship with dance and music. So I was looking at that (Bolingbroke: Mm-hmm).
TAKAHIRO YAMAMOTO: And after I came back from New York, and I was in Portland at that time, I applied for this residency, local residency to work with a choir um who my friend was running, and I asked them what they're working on. And they used that music to make a piece (Bolingbroke: Wow). Yeah. It was like a 20 people choir, I think.
CHRISTY BOLINGBROKE: So, I want to pull on that thread for a second (Yamamoto: Yeah). cause it's so powerful to hear you say that music is scary (Yamamoto: Yesssss). That how potent it is. And I've never heard it articulated that way, at least on this show. And it really like dropped for me because sometimes I might see a performance and it's a solo on stage. And something doesn't, doesn't quite mesh (Yamamoto: Hmm). And it might be because the music is this huge, bombastic (Yamamoto: Yeah), multi-piece orchestra or otherwise (Yamamoto: Yeah). And hearing you talk about the potency of music reminded me, Oh, that's right, it's, it’s not just an inspiration. It is a creative choice (Yamamoto: Yeah. Yeah), to either omit it, how to add a layer on top of it (Yamamoto: Mm-hmm), or respond. So with this work that you did with your friend’s choir (Yamamoto: Yeah), a 20-person choir (Yamamoto: Yeah), was it a solo work? Like how did it then manifest itself in the performance? Did you then put together 20 performers or…? I'm curious to hear you talk about that process a little bit.
TAKAHIRO YAMAMOTO: It was three people. Trio. I basically copied Anne Teresa, Mark Morris, and Balanchine.
CHRISTY BOLINGBROKE: Okay, in what way? Because those, those three alone are very different. How did you copy them? (Both laugh)
TAKAHIRO YAMAMOTO: I was noticing how they are relating to music (Bolingbroke: Mm-hmm). And Mark Morris, for example, was every single body movement was in sync with every single note (Bolingbroke: Yep) that's being produced. So I try that. Anne Teresa I was thinking about how the repetition um and with the Steve Reich’s music (Bolingbroke: Mm-hmm), the, how the movement gets uh...
CHRISTY BOLINGBROKE: How it gets, sort of, fuller, it blooms…
TAKAHIRO YAMAMOTO: Blooms. Yeah (Bolingbroke: Mm-hmm). And slowly revolved, like slowly develops.
CHRISTY BOLINGBROKE: Yeah. Yeah, like a time-lapse camera. It just gets bigger and bigger.
TAKAHIRO YAMAMOTO: Yeah. It's a repetition but it's never a same repetition. It’s always changing (Bolingbroke: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm). So I use that. And I did make the, I think the entrance of the, the choir and exit of the choir, I choreographed.
CHRISTY BOLINGBROKE: Oh, sure, well, there's more bodies on stage (Yamamoto: Yeah) so that completely makes sense. When you think about your own history of you know, who is a dancer? You're like, if they have a body, they are a dancer. You're going to choreograph their entrance and exit. So (Yamamoto: Yes, yes, yes). It really was a dance for 23 people.
TAKAHIRO YAMAMOTO: Yes. I guess so (both laugh). Yes.
CHRISTY BOLINGBROKE: What do you look for in dancers, if you are are casting fellow performers?
TAKAHIRO YAMAMOTO: I look for dancers who is interested in having a deeper conversation about this core question. I usually work with a question in my work (Bolingbroke: Okay), start with a question. And those questions often multiplies throughout the process. I look for dancers who are interested in having that conversation with me (Bolingbroke: Mm-hmm), who is willing to trust me in the direction where they might not be comfortable. (Bolingbroke: Mm-hmm) That's my criteria (laughs) (Bolingbroke: Okay. Okay. I will…). Also, also who I like… (laughs).
CHRISTY BOLINGBROKE: Ya. No. For friends or for fellow performers (Yamamoto: Of course. Of course). That, that makes sense. You're gonna spend a lot of time (Yamamoto: Exactly) with these people.
TAKAHIRO YAMAMOTO: I think affinity is very important. (Bolingbroke: Yes).
CHRISTY BOLINGBROKE: One of the other challenges that comes up, I think, among our, our choreography students, and maybe choreographers everywhere is, how do you name a piece?
TAKAHIRO YAMAMOTO: This is sad to say, but the title is, oftentimes, uh it comes up as a form of release.
CHRISTY BOLINGBROKE: A form of release. Say more.
TAKAHIRO YAMAMOTO: As in, I keep thinking about it. And I just at one point, I give up and say, this should be enough. I just release it.
CHRISTY BOLINGBROKE: And just let it go (both laugh). Don’t want to hold on to that tension anymore.
TAKAHIRO YAMAMOTO: Exactly. I don't even know how else to think about it (Bolingbroke: Mm-hmm). So whatever that I came up so far (Bolingbroke: Mm-hmm), I was just let it happen. And sometimes the work doesn't have much to do with the title that came up. But I was like, Oh, it's okay (laughs).
CHRISTY BOLINGBROKE: It's okay. It's okay. Maybe another kind of release, what do you do if, if you are working under a deadline, or you know, when you're working towards a premiere, and the creative juices just aren't flowing. Do you have any sort of practice to jumpstart your process or to give yourself a different kind of release?
TAKAHIRO YAMAMOTO: I often rely on my dramaturg. My dramaturgs are basically people who will kick my ass (Bolingbroke: Okay, we like ass kickers). That's how I choose them. They're the one that will be honest with me and the other one is very supportive. But they also the one that challenges me the most (Bolingbroke: Mmm). So when I feel down or lacking the creative juices, I will ask the dramaturg what they think of it (Bolingbroke: Hmm). And they usually (Bolingbroke: Mm-hmm). Yes, fire up my
CHRISTY BOLINGBROKE: Some sort of questions, something that you know, when your own questions stopped multiplying, they can find a way to jump in (Yamamoto: Yes) and give you something else to bounce off of.
TAKAHIRO YAMAMOTO: Totally, totally. In a very supportive way (Bolingbroke: Cool). But they also very challenging (Bolingbroke: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Yeah). And that challenge, I thrive in that challenge.
CHRISTY BOLINGBROKE: Yeah. You don't just want people that say you're amazing (Yamamoto: Yeah). Because that doesn't give you anything to push off of.
TAKAHIRO YAMAMOTO: Yeah, I have a difficult time with that (laughs).
CHRISTY BOLINGBROKE: Okay. Okay (Yamamoto: Yes). Thank you so much. Yeah. I got to witness a moment with our students earlier this week, where you offered them a question. And it was: what if your technique is to practice non-technique? And that sort of existential question I could see was, eyes opening, minds being blown. I wanted to offer that observation to then invite you to define further, how would you define 21st Century Dance Practices?
TAKAHIRO YAMAMOTO: I think trainings are great. And I think techniques are also great, I think. The codified techniques (Bolingbroke: Mm-hmm) or codified style of dance (Bolingbroke: Mm-hmm). I don't want to disregard them. But I don't want to be dominated by them (Bolingbroke: Mmm). So that's where I was talking about a non-technique as a technique. Because I mean, what sometimes I question this word technique (Bolingbroke: Mm-hmm), all together, but if the dancers, dance students have this language of technique and style that I think the first question, you remember this. First question I asked them was, what kind of style of dance do you enjoy the most? (Bolingbroke: Mm-hmm) That was the beginning of the class. And then they all have different style, like a ballet or they call it the heels (Bolingbroke: Mm-hmm), which I have never heard that term before.
CHRISTY BOLINGBROKE: Yeah, kind of commercial music, video dancing, Beyonce.
TAKAHIRO YAMAMOTO: Exactly. I want the types to empower us rather than limit us (Bolingbroke: Yes). So that's why if the word technique resonate with them, then non-technique can be wonderful techniques that they have. So they have a way to let go of one way of (Bolingbroke: Mm-hmm) moving or being.
CHRISTY BOLINGBROKE: So much of you sharing that that technique is not a limit, I feel also mirrors how you talked about your own choreographic practice where you start with a question and it leads to more questions (Yamamoto: Right. Right). Whereas, if we only start with an answer: my technique is ballet. How might that be limiting us? And instead of being an answer or a container, how can you use the technique to continue to ask questions?
TAKAHIRO YAMAMOTO: Right, right. I mean, ballet might be difficult because ballet will change your body.
CHRISTY BOLINGBROKE: Yeah (Yamamoto laughs). I mean, I think any, any physical technique, or continued practice will change your body, you know (Yamamoto: Yeah), whether, whether it's martial arts, whether it's running (Yamamoto: Right), playing basketball (Yamamoto: Right), archery is going to change your body (Yamamoto: Yeah). You might develop a stronger bicep on one side than the other (Yamamoto: Exactly. Exactly). And so that's interesting to also hear about, like, how do you key into that? If what I'm hearing, you know, affirms what you're saying the idea of being a 21st century dance practitioner is being able to access many different types of forms instead of specializing in just one thing.
TAKAHIRO YAMAMOTO: Right. Right. And that's how I want my own identity to be (Bolingbroke: Mm-hmm). So that I don't have to, or the labels that come to me (Bolingbroke: Mm-hmm), I can say, sure (Bolingbroke: Yes, and). Yes, yes (Bolingbroke laughs). But I don't want to be codified in just in that.
CHRISTY BOLINGBROKE: Well, especially thinking about the multimedia aspects of it, you're not just a mover (Yamamoto: Right). I think now with technology, you know, a lot of people are able to make music with their phones, or you're working off of that it makes it more accessible (Yamamoto: Right), if people also practice those things, too (Yamamoto: Right, for sure).
TAKAHIRO YAMAMOTO: But at the same time, it's also okay to just hone into one thing, if that's what you want. But know that there are other possibilities out there (Bolingbroke: Mm-hmm). But I want that agency to choose that. I just want to do ballet (Bolingbroke: Mm-hmm), and this is my choice, then all power to you. But (Bolingbroke: Love that. Yeah), you know, but if that's, that's the only thing.
CHRISTY BOLINGBROKE: Mm-hmm. But we're making sure it's a choice (Yamamoto: Right), and not a foregone conclusion (Yamamoto: Right). Yeah. I have one more question (Yamamoto: Yes). So what would be your advice to anyone who is embarking on their own journey in this creative career and lifestyle? And you can come up with your own piece of advice, or feel free to pass on advice that you've received in making this life.
TAKAHIRO YAMAMOTO: Ask yourself when did you get pissed off the most? (Bolingbroke: Hmm) And ask yourself, when were you really angry at somebody else's comment about your work? If you have to recall it, then don't worry about it, but if it comes up right away, then it's still in you (Bolingbroke: Hmm). And think about why that's bothering you? (Bolingbroke: Mm-hmm) And either you let it go. Or ask more questions about why (laughs).
CHRISTY BOLINGBROKE: That's beautiful and somehow simultaneously defensive and offensive at the same time (Yamamoto laughs and says: Exactly). I love that Taka (laughs).
TAKAHIRO YAMAMOTO: Oh my god. That’s so horrible (both continue to laugh).
CHRISTY BOLINGBROKE: No, but it invites you to like do something with it, do something with the haters, or what someone says to understand why it affected you so much (Yamamoto: Right. Right). Or give it the perspective like God someone said something, but I can't recall it. So it actually didn't affect me that much at all, and move on.
TAKAHIRO YAMAMOTO: Yeah. I mean, what makes you happy is also a great question (Bolingbroke: Mm-hmm) and what gives you joy and pleasure, and that's a question that I have to ask myself quite often. But those questions are the ones that are sustaining me (Bolingbroke: Mmm). But what pissed you off is usually that ignites me into something else (Bolingbroke: Yeah). Yeah. So I would ask both questions.
OUTRODUCTION: Inside The Dancer’s Studio Conversation Series is supported by NCCAkron, the University of Akron, the University of Akron Foundation, the Mary Schiller Myers Lecture Series in the Arts, and Audio-Technica, a global audio manufacturer with U.S. headquarters in Northeast Ohio. Our podcast program is produced by Jennifer Edwards. James Sleeman is our editor, transcription by Arushi Singh. Theme music by Floco Torres, cover art by Micah Kraus. Special thanks to Laura Ellacott, Sarah Durham, and Will Blake. To learn more about NCCAkron, please visit us online at NCCakron.org. And follow us on Instagram or Facebook at NCCAkron. We hope you enjoyed this episode, and we encourage you to subscribe on your favorite podcast streaming platform by searching for Inside The Dancer’s Studio. Please share with your friends and if you’d like to help get the word out rate us, and leave a review on Apple podcasts. Thanks for listening and stay curious.