In this episode, NCCAkron’s Executive/Artistic Director, Christy Bolingbroke, enters the ‘studio’ with Philadelphia Pennsylvania based interdisciplinary tap dance artist and scholar Michael J. Love. His embodied research intermixes Black, queer feminist theories and aesthetics with rigorous practice to critically engage Black cultural pasts and “rhythm dream” futurity.
Jennifer Edwards: Thank you for joining us for the seventh season of Inside the Dancer’s Studio where we bring listeners like you closer to the creative process. Celebrating a decade of rigorous play and positive failure, NCCAkron is an incubator and hub for dance research and development and serves as a connector, a catalyst, and a cultural matchmaker. Inside the Dancer’s Studio is recorded as an ongoing documentation practice with NCCAkron visiting artists.
Jennifer Edwards: In this episode, NCCAkron’s Executive/Artistic Director, Christy Bolingbroke, enters the ‘studio’ with Philadelphia Pennsylvania based interdisciplinary tap dance artist and scholar Michael J. Love. His embodied research intermixes Black, queer feminist theories and aesthetics with rigorous practice to critically engage Black cultural pasts and “rhythm dream” futurity.
Christy Bolingbroke: I'm really excited that we get to speak with choreographer, Michael J. Love. So let's get to it. Hello, Michael. We're gonna dig in a little bit to what I got to witness yesterday, but to start, I always like to ask artists.
Michael J. Love: Mm-hmm.
Christy Bolingbroke: When did you first call yourself a choreographer?
Michael J. Love: Ooh, this is interesting. So I was actually writing an application the other day and I was…
Christy Bolingbroke: As one does [both laugh].
Michael J. Love: Um, and I think I started referring to myself as a choreographer or dance maker about 10-ish years ago when I was making the transition out of like digging or dancing in other people's companies into sort of like creating my own stuff. Maybe like 2016, 2015, like around 2015 to 2017 is when I was really sort of like presenting my own work for the first time.
Christy Bolingbroke: Mm-hmm. And, and a lot of your work and research also as a scholar does focus around Tap dance.
Michael J. Love: Yes.
Christy Bolingbroke: So would you consider yourself a culture bearer as well? Do you use that language?
Michael J. Love: Yes. I say scholar, which is new. So I say interdisciplinary, Tap dance, artist, scholar, and educator.
Christy Bolingbroke: Mm-hmm.
Michael J. Love: Sometimes the educator is not there, but I think, 'cause sometimes that's wrapped up in the artist and the scholar, the scholarly work. Um, but I think of myself as someone who carries a history. Um, yeah, I think, I think a lot of, okay, we're gonna have the generation conversation, but I think like the millennial
Christy Bolingbroke: Let's have it. Yes.
Michael J. Love:The millennial generation, a lot of us. A lot of folks that I know came out of the sort of like youth Tap ensemble…
Christy Bolingbroke: Mmm.
Michael J. Love:…moment in the nineties.
Christy Bolingbroke: Mm-hmm.
Michael J. Love: There were several across the country...
Christy Bolingbroke: Before YouTube.
Michael J. Love: Yes.
Christy Bolingbroke: But as a fellow competition dancer.
Michael J. Love: Yes [laughs].
Christy Bolingbroke: I'm, I'm feeling adjacent to the Youth Tap ensemble.
Michael J. Love: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Christy Bolingbroke: Was never my practice though. Continue.
Michael J. Love: Yeah. Yeah. But it was like, we. So we were in these youth ensembles and we would always go to, there was a conference that happened, um, part of the Chicago Human Rhythm Project.
Christy Bolingbroke:Mm-hmm.
Michael J. Love: We do a youth tap ensemble conference every…
Christy Bolingbroke: Yes. Shout out, Chi town.
Michael J. Love:....summer.
Christy Bolingbroke: downtown.
Michael J. Love: Yes. So we would meet there, um. But that was a very specific type of training, like training and Tap dance, but not as soloists necessarily.
Christy Bolingbroke: Mm-hmm.
Michael J. Love: Even though we were, we would practice like improvisation and sort of like having solo moments was very big, but we had a rep.
Christy Bolingbroke: Yeah.
Michael J. Love: As like kids, we were doing, we were like maintaining a rep. So there's a history, like we were working with people like Germaine Ingram.
Christy Bolingbroke: Oh reputation. Or a repertory?
Michael J. Love: A repertory.
Christy Bolingbroke: Okay. So
Michael J. Love: Like, sorry. Like yeah. No, like, thank you. Yes. Um…
Christy Bolingbroke: I can imagine both.
[Both laugh]
Michael J. Love: Yeah. Yes. Yeah. Well, yes, both. Yeah, definitely.
Christy Bolingbroke: I was like, both. Okay.
Michael J. Love: Yes. Yeah. Yeah. But reputation as in like holding, you know, we were performing people's work.
Christy Bolingbroke: Mm-hmm.
Michael J. Love: Um, and so we would have these sort of like weekend long residencies where artists would come in and set a work on us.
Christy Bolingbroke: Amazing.
Michael J. Love: Um. And looking back, the type of work we were doing was, was very sophisticated because it wasn't like folks were coming in and treating us as children. Like they were treating us as like pre, pre-professional artists.
Christy Bolingbroke: Yeah.
Michael J. Love: Like we weren't getting paid. But um, but yeah, so in that way I feel like I am carrying a history and then we would. Our tech, the technique classes that we would take with our directors were very based on, like, this is a Steve Condo's warmup.
Christy Bolingbroke: Hmm.
Michael J. Love: Baakari Wilder was, uh, one of the alums of Tappers with Attitude Youth Ensemble in DC. Um, and so he, at a certain point, like was more present, like he came back into teaching and so he would do like classes with us. And so I understood there was a lineage that we were sort of like. A part of
Christy Bolingbroke: Yeah.
Michael J. Love: So now as an adult.
Christy Bolingbroke: Mm-hmm.
Michael J. Love: I guess, um, and like as a professor, someone who's, who's teaching, I definitely see myself as someone who's like, passing that knowledge along, but like came from a very specific type of like, training upbringing, being reared in the dance. Um, but yeah.
Christy Bolingbroke: Amazing.
Michael J. Love: Yeah.
Christy Bolingbroke: I love, it's one of the reasons I love to do this podcast is 'cause always find something that's similar but also totally new.
Michael J. Love: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Christy Bolingbroke: That, that it just reveals how vast. The dance field is.
Michael J. Love: Yes. Yeah.
Christy Bolingbroke: And, and so I'm curious as both a mover…
Michael J. Love: Mm-hmm
Christy Bolingbroke: …And particularly working in the Tap dance lineage.
Michael J. Love: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Christy Bolingbroke: How would you consider or describe your relationship to music?
Michael J. Love: I mean, music is a very much a part of what I do and. I like to also say it's part of what I make. So I think when I was teaching kids more, I would say like, a Tap dancer is two things. A musician and a dancer.
Christy Bolingbroke: Yes.
Michael J. Love: Which was very important to sort of like. Help those younger students understand that they were doing, like, they were making sounds, but with purpose.
Christy Bolingbroke: Mm-hmm.
Michael J. Love: We were, I was asking 'em to think about like shading and dynamics and all of these things. Um, and like we, I think Tap dancers access, melody, but like in a sort of different way. Um, so all that's very present in there. Um, but that's interesting to talk about in this moment because I feel like a lot of the music I work with, especially now for this new project is canned, right?
Christy Bolingbroke: Mm. Recorded.
Michael J. Love: Yeah.
Christy Bolingbroke: Yeah,
Michael J. Love: Yeah, exactly. Um, which, which, depending on who you talk to is maybe like a taboo or something we shouldn't do as Tap dancers, but I think there's something. And especially if you're speaking about like specific like Black genres of music, there's something about like, history being recorded and kept in a certain way.
Christy Bolingbroke: Mm-hmm.
Michael J. Love: And then sort of like accessing that specific historical account, right. Like a, a piece of music and sort of like interacting with that piece of music. So, but I, I do on occasion get to work with live musicians, which is always like such a thrilling thing to be able to do, um, an entirely different way of approaching what I do, right?
Christy Bolingbroke: Mm-hmm.
Michael J. Love: As a, as a, as a. A person who, who works in music and like oral, rhythm making, oral, sort of like, uh, questioning, studying, thinking.
Christy Bolingbroke: Yeah. It, uh, I'm struck by something that you said about your youth Tap ensemble training too.
Michael J. Love: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Christy Bolingbroke: That it was not a bunch of soloists.
Michael J. Love: Yeah.
Christy Bolingbroke: And so if you have a ensemble of Tap dancers…
Michael J. Love: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Christy Bolingbroke:…Is that the same as akin to like a, an orchestra?
Michael J. Love: Yes. Yeah, definitely. I think there's opportunities to play with, like, some folks call it a counterpoint or like, you know, polyrhythmic structures or moments, um, people doing different things.
Christy Bolingbroke: Mm-hmm.
Michael J. Love: But I think something that really, uh, shows up when you have an ensemble of dancers doing the same thing at the same time is that everyone's has a different physicality. Everyone has a different sort of approach and folks like sound different.
Christy Bolingbroke: Mm-hmm.
Michael J. Love: People wear different shoes, people do different things with their shoes. People approach steps in different ways. So it's always interesting to hear the essence of. Each person, but like together in tandem maybe.
Christy Bolingbroke: Mm-hmm. As part of your research residency this week, you agreed to have a jam session?
Michael J. Love: Yes.
Christy Bolingbroke: With a couple local artists. Right. Uh, Chris Coles and Monika Bowman are at the hel for their, uh, helm for their Avimancy project, exploring the translation of bird song.
Michael J. Love: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Christy Bolingbroke: The natural environment, uh, against humans, and also looking for what kinds of dance practitioners would play with that.
Michael J. Love: Right. Right.
Christy Bolingbroke: Um, I have a specific moment that I got to witness.
Michael J. Love: Mm-hmm.
Christy Bolingbroke: That, that you also talked about the, uh, the drag of a step.
Michael J. Love: Hm. yep. Mm-hmm.
Christy Bolingbroke: Right. Because, uh, not all birds song is uh staccato.
Michael J. Love: Right. Yeah.
Christy Bolingbroke: Yeah, yeah. Uh, and so how do you do something sort of long?
Michael J. Love: Right.
Christy Bolingbroke: And I'd never thought about that. Uh, like if you had to do an entire Tap dance…
Michael J. Love: Right.
Christy Bolingbroke:….that was just working almost like a, like a, a long elongated…
Michael J. Love: Yeah. Yeah.
Christy Bolingbroke: You're this, this is sort of an interesting drone.
Michael J. Love: Yeah.
Christy Bolingbroke: And then I also appreciated your question, uh, where you asked. To you, y'all were having a conversation around woodpeckers.
Michael J. Love: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Christy Bolingbroke: And the intention.
Michael J. Love: Mm-hmm.
Christy Bolingbroke: Like, is the woodpecker trying to make the noise?
Michael J. Love: Mm-hmm.
Christy Bolingbroke: Or feel the resonance…
Michael J. Love: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Christy Bolingbroke:…Of their effort.
Michael J. Love: Mm-hmm.
Christy Bolingbroke: Um, what kinds of things were coming up for you…
Michael J. Love: Yeah.
Christy Bolingbroke: You know, like that, that maybe you didn't say out loud or beyond what I also got to witness in the room?
Michael J. Love: Yeah. Well, I should shout out my good friend and collaborator, Colleena Miller.
Christy Bolingbroke: Mm-hmm.
Michael J. Love: Because she, um, we were working, I forget we've worked together. On several projects of each other's. Um, and I think at one point we were in rehearsal and she was talking to me about like how she was trying to figure out like the long note. Um, because a lot of right, just, just because of the way the shoes are made and the way we do what we do, it's like staccato or quick notes or like more accessible to us. Um, so yeah, I think that also feeds into this conversation of like how I've. Been playing with a delay pedal to sort of like, um, slow sound down, like try to manipulate sounds more, whether it's like recording or capturing my own sounds in the moment.
Christy Bolingbroke: Mm-hmm.
Michael J. Love: And then trying to manipulate them to make them last longer or like stay present in the room for longer. Um. Yeah. And I've also been like thinking about like, using looping pedals. Not thinking about but doing. When I say thinking, I actually mean like doing.
Christy Bolingbroke: Yes, yes. It's been physical thinking.
Michael J. Love: Yes, yes, exactly [laughs]. Thank you. Um, but like trying to like loop the same sound over and over and like adding to it. Um, so I think there's always this negotiation with like the realities of time. But that's where that's coming from. But I think in that moment I was also thinking about like hearing Monika talk about woodpeckers and the type of wood and like what, like the function of like how they, like, I guess they're hitting their beaks on the wood. And I was thinking of like dolphins and like echo location. And I think that's where that question came from. 'cause it's like the way that dolphins communicate. I'm, I'm not a s I'm not a marine scientist, but, um,
Christy Bolingbroke: No. But from what you've heard so far.
Michael J. Love: Yeah, exactly. Exactly. Uh, just like making a sound and like the, the contours of the environment that they're in will like, send that sound back to them.
Christy Bolingbroke: Mm-hmm.
Michael J. Love: So it's like how they figure out like where they are, where there other folks are, I call them folks, um, like where maybe like food is. So I was wondering if that was the same thing that happens with woodpeckers.
Christy Bolingbroke: I mean it really brought it back and, and it can seem trite sometimes when people talk about dances…
Michael J. Love: Hmm.
Christy Bolingbroke:…like it's a universal language.
Michael J. Love: Sure, sure…
Christy Bolingbroke: And I was like, mm. A different podcast.
Michael J. Love: Right. Right. [laughs].
Christy Bolingbroke: But I felt that the, your critical inquiry…
Michael J. Love: Mm-hmm.
Christy Bolingbroke:…really revealed how one can think about it as a language.
Michael J. Love: Right. Yeah.
Christy Bolingbroke: It isn't just talking, making a noise against wood or, or
Michael J. Love: Right.
Christy Bolingbroke: Tapping for Tapping sake.
Michael J. Love: Right. Right.
Christy Bolingbroke: And I'm real excited to hear about the things you've been physically thinking about.
Michael J. Love: Yeah.
Christy Bolingbroke: As far as looping pedals, because I feel that that. That raises new heights for what virtuosity could be.
Michael J. Love: Mm. Mm-hmm.
Christy Bolingbroke: That it isn't just about, you know, uh, gosh, it's been a long time since I've done any Tap. I'm trying to think like, was it like, you know, is it wings?
Michael J. Love: Right. Yeah.
Christy Bolingbroke: Yeah. But that the height of early nineties…
Michael J. Love: Right.
Christy Bolingbroke:…late eighties...
Michael J. Love: Yeah.
Christy Bolingbroke:…which is basically the last time I tapped was like how many wings you could do.
Michael J. Love: Yeah. yeah.
Christy Bolingbroke: Or how many fouette turns…
Michael J. Love: Yeah.
Christy Bolingbroke: if you're a ballet dancer…
Michael J. Love: Yeah. Yeah.
Christy Bolingbroke:…and, and instead to think about how are you crafting the sound.
Michael J. Love: Yeah. Yeah.
Christy Bolingbroke: I feel you're contributing so much to that.
Michael J. Love: Yeah. Um.
Christy Bolingbroke: Thank you.
Michael J. Love: Yeah. Well. Do what I can.
Christy Bolingbroke: And you're like, just a little bit of this. Uh, I, I'm curious, so what inspires you?
Michael J. Love: Hmm.
Christy Bolingbroke: You're, you talked about you're making a new work right now and kind of like where did, where did it start? Um, because we know that…
Michael J. Love: Where did it start? Yeah.
Christy Bolingbroke: …sometimes the muses don't just come down from upon high.
Michael J. Love: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Um, that's interesting 'cause I have a colleague now who talks about the muse entering the room. Her name is Karen Clemente. Um, I like saying people's names.
Christy Bolingbroke: Yes, say people's names.
Michael J. Love: But she, with our students, we talk about like, you have to, you have to leave the door open and the muse is gonna come into the room at a certain point. You don't know when. And she'll sit down and you just have to like be ready to sort of like, interact with her. Um, so. When did this, I don't, I don't know. Um, I do know, let me think. Um,
Christy Bolingbroke: You can also reflect on a past work…
Michael J. Love: Yeah. Yeah.
Christy Bolingbroke:…that you've done if the current work feels still raw.
Michael J. Love: Yeah. And it, it, I guess it is raw, but I think I'm figuring it out here. Um, I think I had a breakthrough last night. But then someone erased the dry erase board. But I took a picture, so I'm all, I'm good. Um, and I wrote, please do not erase. Okay. I'm gonna hide the erasers.
Christy Bolingbroke: All right. We'll be sure to underline that.
Michael J. Love: I think it was maybe like a cleaning services person who's just doing their job, um, which sometimes happens and that's fine. Um.
Christy Bolingbroke: Sometimes the muse enters the room.
Michael J. Love: Yes.
Christy Bolingbroke: And sometimes they exit.
Michael J. Love: Sometimes she exits. and she takes away, and you have to find it again.
Christy Bolingbroke: Different show. Yeah [laughs].
Michael J. Love: Exactly. Um. Yeah, so I guess my last sort of like full project was a piece called (RHY)PISTEMOLOGY! (OR, TO KNOW THROUGH THE RHYTHM). So thinking about, right, (rhy)pistemology…too of like rhythm and epistemology, right? So, so rhythm as a, a source of knowledge, a way of knowing a method, um, but also a carrier of knowledge. So thinking very simply about, um, especially in Tap dance, we have these sort of like routines. There's like this classic repertoire that we pass from person to person, from generation to generation. Like the shim sham is a really good example.
Christy Bolingbroke: Mm-hmm.
Michael J. Love: Um, or like the BS chorus or like, uh, all these other pieces that we have from all these other late greats. Um, but. Yeah, so thinking about those dances as like, you're not only sort of like learning the steps, but you're learning sort of like the essence of the person who created those steps. And, um, you can like dig through those histories. Like for example, with the shim sham, we think of Leonard Reed and Willie Bryant as the creators of that, of that piece, that work…
Christy Bolingbroke: Mmm-hmm.
Michael J. Love:…that routine, right. Um, that we think of like as a Tap dancers, national anthem. But like more recently some historians, like, I'll shout out Robyn Watson, who's one of those people. Um, she talks a lot about the Whitman Sisters, right? Um, as these four Black women. Um, who were able to sort of exist. Um, this is like during the time of like the TOBA circuit. They had their own touring act and they were, um, the administrators, the producers, the directors, the choreographers of this act, which was very rare at the point in time for them to be able to like hold all those roles. Right. Um, both on and off stage.
Christy Bolingbroke: Trailblazers before today.
Michael J. Love: Exactly. Exactly. Um, but you know, some historians have sort of like done some, some, some deeper digging and have realized that like Leonard and Willie were employed by the Whitman sisters.
Christy Bolingbroke: Mm-hmm.
Michael J. Love: And they were, the shim sham maybe came out of like some of the material they were doing in the show that they were doing with them. So maybe it was like actually choreograph, choreographed by the Whitman sisters and like. These two men just got the credit. Um, but all that history lives in sort of like doing the stance. Right. Um, and so (RHY)PISTEMOLOGY! came out of like this idea of like, I'm holding all this knowledge, like, like what does it mean to sort of like conceptualized rhythm as a, not just as a thing we do, but in terms of like just going on stage and like doing something, right. But, um, an actual sort of like method of like carrying this history. I, um, ha was working with Deforrest Brown Jr. who's a sort of like, um, electronic music, composer, producer, historian, he calls himself a rhythm analyst. Um, and so my partner actually introduced me to Deforrest . Um, 'cause they met during a, a Rauschenberg residency actually.
Christy Bolingbroke: As one does.
Michael J. Love: [Laughs] Yes. And so I was like, look, I was like, I really, I'm into like House and Techno and I really wanna like work with someone and sort of like pair Tap dance with those things. And my partner was like, oh, like Deforrest. Deforrest thinks a lot about like Techno music coming out of Detroit and like the Black cultural histories of Techno music. Um, he wrote a book on all of this.
Christy Bolingbroke: Google it people.
Michael J. Love: But yeah [laughs]. But yeah, but, putting those two things together. So that's what the last piece was doing. Um, and then I'm thinking a lot about with this current project, like rhythm as a way of being.
Christy Bolingbroke: Mm-hmm.
Michael J. Love: So like rhythm as an ontology. So the title is rhy/ontology, um, (or, to be the rhythm). Um, so thinking about like, what, I mean both works, think about this, but specifically thinking about being one's own liberation, I guess…
Christy Bolingbroke: Mmm.
Michael J. Love:…is sort of the. The goal, right? The aim where, whereas with (RHY)PISTEMOLOGY! I was thinking of like, um, liberating oneself through the knowledge that the rhythm carries. Um, right. So tapping into same idea with like the muse, like tapping into this like history, the culture, the knowledge that we're sharing and we're holding and we're activating and like being liberated by that. But with rhy/ontology is thinking about becoming. More of like really sort of like embodying the rhythm itself and like what, like liberating oneself through the labor…
Christy Bolingbroke: Mm-hmm.
Michael J. Love:…that you employ to make the rhythm happen. Um, and then of course, I think later, the next project is to think about phenomenology. So like rhythm as a phenomenon and like. What that does, but I'm not there yet, so I'm just, I'm the rhythm. I'm saying like claiming the is never…
Christy Bolingbroke: The rhythm is not done…Yes I love that.
Michael J. Love: Yes [laughs]/ I think there's three ways of thinking of rhythm as like as knowledge, as a way of being and something that happens.
Christy Bolingbroke: Mm-hmm.
Michael J. Love: But yeah.
Christy Bolingbroke: Given your experience as a, you know, from coming from a youth Tap ensemble and then now as a choreographer and maker, like how much are you doing solo work?
Michael J. Love: Mm.
Christy Bolingbroke: Or does this also manifest, uh, with, with multiple dancers?
Michael J. Love: Yeah.
Christy Bolingbroke: How are you navigating that?
Michael J. Love: Yeah. I think this piece will be an ensemble work. It's interesting 'cause I grew up in an ensemble dancing in ensemble and we would have like solo moments and then I was a gigging dancer. Right. And you're always like in casts. I've had for the last 10 plus years, like, like a I'm gonna say a career. I'm gonna say it.
Christy Bolingbroke: Yes.
Michael J. Love: A career as a soloist.
Christy Bolingbroke: Oh yeah. It's not bragging if it's true.
Michael J. Love: Yeah [laughs].
Christy Bolingbroke: And you have the receipts.
Michael J. Love: Yeah, yeah. Um, so a lot of my work has been like solo-based, so I feel like with the last project and with this project, I'm trying to return to like more of an ensemble, like of Tap dancers. 'cause I've had collaborators, like Aryel René Jackson is another one of my collaborators who we've worked several times and they are like, um, a visual artist, a filmmaker. Um, so we've done work together where we're sort of like exploring like different ideas. Um, and then Deforrest Brown Jr. Who who works in like music com composing like, sort of like cultural history that that space. And some of my other collaborators have been folks, um, who work in different disciplines.
Christy Bolingbroke: Mm-hmm.
Michael J. Love: So the work has been interdisciplinary in that way. Um. But I feel like I'm trying to return to like a group of Tap dancers doing something together. Um, which is interesting 'cause I'm here at, right now at NCC, working alone. But I, I feel like I've been lucky enough to have this, these sort of like opportunities land at the same time.
Christy Bolingbroke: Mm.
Michael J. Love: So in a few weeks I'll be back at Muhlenberg College where I'm the current Baker artist-in-residence...
Christy Bolingbroke: Mm-hmm
Michael J. Love:…this academic year. Um, and so I'll have like a three day convening with several of my collaborators and some students there actually. Mm. Um, so that'll be really fun, but…
Christy Bolingbroke: Be able to workshop with them a little bit.
Michael J. Love: Yeah. So I feel like this week has been like generating ideas.
Christy Bolingbroke: Mm-hmm.
Michael J. Love: And like I'll do a showing that's sort of like, here's what I'm thinking about and then I'm gonna take it and sort of like transpose it so that it can exist on an ensemble of dancers. Um.
Christy Bolingbroke: With Tap dancers being both movers and musician, I'm curious how you find an ensemble of, of Tap dancers you like to work with them?
Michael J. Love: Yeah.
Christy Bolingbroke: How much of it is isolated? You know, um, from my perspective, the way a lot of musicians are able to gig…
Michael J. Love: Yeah.
Christy Bolingbroke:….and come together.
Michael J. Love: Yeah. Yeah.
Christy Bolingbroke: And how much of it is the community…
Michael J. Love: Mm-hmm.
Christy Bolingbroke:…experience
Michael J. Love: Mm-hmm.
Christy Bolingbroke:…of figuring things out altogether?
Michael J. Love: Yeah. That's an interesting question, I think. Hmm. I mean, this maybe stresses people that I work with in the room out. I'm thinking of my own students, um, who like I'm setting work on right now this semester. And I feel like there's a process of like me figuring it out in real time in the room in front of the, the folks. And I joke about this, but it's very true. Like once it's out, it's like, it, it leaves my head.
Christy Bolingbroke: Mm-hmm.
Michael J. Love: And I think there's an expectation that I have of like, that we're in a process together where it's like folks are like, maybe like grabbing the information, but like also adding too, and like asking questions and being like…
Christy Bolingbroke: Yeah.
Michael J. Love:…you just did this differently in order for it to be effective and productive, like, I have to do work before, like, on my own.
Christy Bolingbroke: Mm-hmm.
Michael J. Love: Or at least walk in with sort of like parts and be like, there's this, there's this section of this song that I'm really interested in or like, here's the idea, here's the concept of like, here's this, these other pieces of media and, or like, here's this rhythm that I've been thinking about. Like, I'm gonna put it all together with you in the room now. With peer collaborators, I, I feel like it's very much a, a thing of like. Um, it becomes more about like being accountable in terms of like
Christy Bolingbroke: Mm-hmm.
Michael J. Love: Like I provide a lot of information upfront and then I walk in the room and, and maybe I have some, some stuff that's set. And so it's like getting that stuff out. And then it's like, I feel like the, my peers are sort of there to be like, you said that this is, this was the concept, this is what we were doing. Like, and they're thinking alongside and like, it's, it's a, it's like a constructive challenging.
Christy Bolingbroke: Mm-hmm.
Michael J. Love: Right? So like the constant like questions. And so I feel like it's like, um, the information's coming out and it's being sort of like critically engaged with, um, which is a really sort of like, it's a privilege to be in the room with your peers in that way to like have the time and the space and the resources to be able to do that.
Christy Bolingbroke: I mean, it is one of the reasons…
Michael J. Love: Yeah.
Christy Bolingbroke:…that dance, you know, and you know, not only do you need to make space for the muse to come into the room
Michael J. Love: Mm-hmm.
Christy Bolingbroke: But you need a room.
Michael J. Love: Yeah. Yes.
Christy Bolingbroke: And people…
Michael J. Love: Yes.
Christy Bolingbroke: And, and this constructive challenging that you've described…
Michael J. Love: Mm-hmm.
Christy Bolingbroke:…it, it actually, uh, did, it reminds me of that, that dolphin or that woodpecker
Michael J. Love: Mm-hmm.
Christy Bolingbroke: And how they're also seeing what comes back
Michael J. Love: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Christy Bolingbroke: Based on who's in their environment.
Michael J. Love: Yeah.
Christy Bolingbroke: And, and in that room too.
Michael J. Love: Yeah.
Christy Bolingbroke: And then what do you do…
Michael J. Love: Yeah.
Christy Bolingbroke:….with it to build with it, to hone it to, you know, burnish it more?
Michael J. Love: Yeah.
Christy Bolingbroke: In the creative process…
Michael J. Love: Mm-hmm.
Christy Bolingbroke:…do you have any hacks or practices when the muse, she's on vacation (Love laughs) Right? When, when, when you kind of reach, uh, and we've all, whether you've made a dance…
Michael J. Love: Mm-hmm
Christy Bolingbroke:…or you've had to write an essay…
Michael J. Love: Mm-hmm.
Christy Bolingbroke:….we've all had to face the blank page.
Michael J. Love: Right, yeah.
Christy Bolingbroke: And just because you carved out that time…
Michael J. Love: Right.
Christy Bolingbroke:…and resources. Doesn't mean…
Michael J. Love: Right.
Christy Bolingbroke:….that it comes forth.
Michael J. Love: Right. I think I've been being kinder to myself.
Christy Bolingbroke: Ooh.
Michael J. Love: Um, in those moments, which is like growth, right?
Christy Bolingbroke: Yes. Yes.
Michael J. Love: Like, I think it's easy to be like really frustrated with and like blame oneself
Christy Bolingbroke: Mm-hmm.
Michael J. Love: And be like, why can't I do X? Um, and I'm not saying that that doesn't happen, but I feel like…
Christy Bolingbroke: It’s human. Sure.
Michael J. Love: Now I'm much more of a person like, well, I'll go home and like, go to bed.
Christy Bolingbroke: Yep.
Michael J. Love: Or like, I'll just do something else. Or like, what else can I do that's productive? Like, can I. I don't know, like put all my sources in MLA format…
Christy Bolingbroke: Hmm.
Michael J. Love: …or like, or like, can I, um, set something else up or do something else, like, just like not think about it or like just put it away and come back to it.
Christy Bolingbroke: I love the idea of going home and going to bed.
Michael J. Love: Yeah.
Christy Bolingbroke:…as productive rest. I just, I just wanna counter productivity culture and acknowledge it shows up in a lot of different forms.
Michael J. Love: Yeah, yeah. Yeah. I think sometimes there's a very real moment of like I'm actually tired and that's why it's not working.
Christy Bolingbroke: Yeah.
Michael J. Love: Or I don't know why this is always surprising to me. It's like, I need to drink some water [Bolingbroke laughs] or like, let me go eat some food and then try this again. And it always, I, I mean, I know why, right? Because we live in late stage capitalism and so like, but it's like always the last thing that you think of…
Christy Bolingbroke: Right.
Michael J. Love: Like, you're like, why is this not working? I'm so frustrated. I feel so crazy. And then it's like, I haven't eaten…
Christy Bolingbroke: Yeah.
Michael J. Love: …in six hours.
Christy Bolingbroke: You were so busy listening to…
Michael J. Love: Yeah.
Christy Bolingbroke:…other people respond back to you.
Michael J. Love: Yeah.
Christy Bolingbroke: You stopped listening to yourself.
Michael J. Love: Yeah. exactly. Yeah.
Christy Bolingbroke: Yeah. I think a lot of, a lot of leaders
Michael J. Love: Yeah.
Christy Bolingbroke: Choreographers and otherwise could identify with that.
Michael J. Love: Yeah. Yeah. Yes.
Christy Bolingbroke: That is so real [laughs].
Michael J. Love: Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. But I think, yeah, that's kind of what I go back to in those moments.
Christy Bolingbroke: And, and so since you're also holding as a scholar
Michael J. Love: Mm-hmm.
Christy Bolingbroke: And working in the Tap dance lineage
Michael J. Love: Mm-hmm.
Christy Bolingbroke: The looping sounds like a, a sense of what's next as a practice.
Michael J. Love: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Christy Bolingbroke: But how are you also thinking about vocabulary?
Michael J. Love: Mm-hmm.
Christy Bolingbroke: Like are you, uh, leaning in on those known…
Michael J. Love: Mm-hmm.
Christy Bolingbroke:…sequences and things…
Michael J. Love: Mm-hmm.
Christy Bolingbroke:…that are sort of available to most tap dancer as tools?
Michael J. Love: Mm-hmm.
Christy Bolingbroke: Uh, are you consciously trying to push yourself…
Michael J. Love: Mm-hmm.
Christy Bolingbroke: To find the next sound…
Michael J. Love: Mm-hmm.
Christy Bolingbroke: The next sequence or, or something? I'm, I'm curious, this idea of old vocabulary and new vocabulary.
Michael J. Love: Mm-hmm. There are no new steps. I think that that's, you know. I think there's new ways of putting the steps together…
Christy Bolingbroke: Mmm.
Michael J. Love:…maybe. Um, so I, a lot of, I feel like a lot of my process is improvising in a room alone for like, a lot of time. And maybe nothing really comes out of that. Or maybe I just walk away and feel like, Ugh, that wasn't that great. But I feel like there's something about, um actualizing the vocabulary that I'm holding. And then I think there is a, there is, there are moments where it's like, I'm, I, I, I've noticed that I'm doing a thing or I'm stuck in a rut, or I keep, there's a pattern that I keep accessing. So like, how can I stop and think about how to change that, right?
Christy Bolingbroke: Mm.
Michael J. Love: So maybe it's sometimes as simple as like, oh, I'm doing this on my right foot. Like, can I do it on my left? I don't know. Let me take some time and like. Can I like try it out?
Christy Bolingbroke: Our last question is an invitation.
Michael J. Love: Mm-hmm.
Christy Bolingbroke: To either pass on the best piece of advice you've ever received when it came to navigating a creative life.
Michael J. Love: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Christy Bolingbroke: Or offer up your own piece of advice, maybe something that you've practiced and shared often with students.
Michael J. Love: Mmm-hmm. A creative life. I don't, I I am sure this came from someone at some point. I can't think of who right now in this exact moment. Um, which I hate 'cause I like to, I like to cite people. Um, but I, I feel like one thing that I say to my students is that like, you, like, what is a career anymore? [laughs]
Christy Bolingbroke: Hmm.
Michael J. Love: What does that look like? Is that even possible?
Christy Bolingbroke: Mm-hmm.
Michael J. Love: Maybe it's obvious I'm someone who teaches at like a liberal arts college. Right? But it's like you're essentially what you're trying to do, if you decide to, to pursue a life as an artist or in the arts or around the arts or whatever, or creative career is that you're, you've amassed knowledge of different things. You have skills. Um, you have abilities, and you're sort of like on a journey to figure out like what feels right. And maybe some things will feel right for a while. And then there's a point where like, okay, like it's time for the next thing.
Jennifer Edwards: Inside the Dancer’s Studio Conversation Series is produced by NCCAkron supported in part by Audio-Technica, a global audio manufacturer with U.S. headquarters in Northeast Ohio.' Our podcast program is produced by Lisa Niedermeyer of Handmade Future Studio. Rahsaan Cruz is our audio engineer, with transcription by Arushi Singh, theme music by Floco Torres, and cover art by Micah Kraus. Special thanks to Laura Ellacott, Nakiasha Moore-Dunson, Dante Fields, Jen Garlando, and Mariclare Hulbert. To learn more about NCCAkron, please visit us online at nccakron.org. And follow us on Instagram or Facebook at NCCAkron. We hope you enjoyed this episode, and we encourage you to subscribe on your favorite podcast streaming platform by searching for Inside the Dancer’s Studio. Thanks for listening and stay curious.