In this episode, NCCAkron’s Executive/Artistic Director, Christy Bolingbroke, enters the ‘studio’ with New York based Amanda Castro, Arielle Rosales, and Brinda Guha of Soles of Duende, a multicultural, all-female trio based in the rhythms of Tap, Flamenco & Kathak dance.
Jennifer Edwards: Thank you for joining us for the seventh season of Inside the Dancer’s Studio where we bring listeners like you closer to the creative process. Celebrating a decade of rigorous play and positive failure, NCCAkron is an incubator and hub for dance research and development and serves as a connector, a catalyst, and a cultural matchmaker. Inside the Dancer’s Studio is recorded as an ongoing documentation practice with NCCAkron visiting artists.
Jennifer Edwards: In this episode, NCCAkron’s Executive/Artistic Director, Christy Bolingbroke, enters the ‘studio’ with New York based Amanda Castro, Arielle Rosales, and Brinda Guha of Soles of Duende, a multicultural, all-female trio based in the rhythms of Tap, Flamenco & Kathak dance.
[Intro: percussive footwork music with bells begins]
Christy Bolingbroke: Hey. All right. That is how we start a dance podcast. Oh my goodness. And it is my pleasure today to welcome Souls of Duende to the conversations.
[Yay]
Would you like to introduce your, your voices and your names, and we'd love to hear from each of you if you just wanna say your name and your pronouns so that our listeners can also attune who's speaking when.
Brinda Guha: Perfect. My name is Brenda Guha. My pronouns are she and her. And I'm the resident Kathak dancer of Souls of Duende
Arielle Rosales: Hello, my name is Arielle Rosales. I am the resident of Flamena of Souls of Duende. My pronouns are she/ her.
Amanda Castro: Hey everybody. My name is Amanda Castro. I am the resident tap dancer of Souls of Duende, and my pronouns are she/her.
Christy Bolingbroke: So I'm really curious to start, especially 'cause you each come from such vastly different cultures and training. How would you define choreography?
Brinda Guha: This is Brinda speaking. I, I think that choreography is the usage of space and time. Like, I think it's the use of the space that's around us and the time we spend using. And relationships to other bodies. Sure. I think that is part of it. Absolutely. I think the relationship part is integral. I don't think what, that's what it's based on. I think it's based on the manipul, the manipulation of the space that's around us. I think that's where it starts. I think once choices and decisions are made around that, I think, you can build arc and story and narrative and flow and other things that I think are also part of choreography. A hundred percent. Um, but I think the first few decisions have to be, what do I wanna do with the space around me? What do I wanna do with the time that I have? I think those are the first questions I'm asking myself as a choreographer.
Amanda Castro: Amanda here. Choreography is storytelling. That's the first with period. Choreography is storytelling. It is certainly a space of creative decision that is influenced by everything that's happening in the world right now that is forming your gaze on how you're making your decisions. Whether it's, you know, we're beautifully in a percussive dance trio, so what audible story are we telling on top of the visual story that we're telling? For me, choreography is just, it's another, it's another language. It's another language to get to communicate with other people.
Arielle Rosales: As soon as Brinda spoke her your first words I totally agree with, I was thinking of space and time as well. And it's interesting for Flamenco because when we think of choreography as like large, uh, pieces or company pieces, Flamenco in its tradition of, of quote unquote choreography, solo dance form. And so often when I'm choreographing, I choreograph for a singular body that could, then many people can do that thing. Versus there's choreography that is four groups of people. It's interesting in our dynamic, we've got people with, you know, large company minds, big musical theater now, minds and theatrics. And I'm always thinking of the singular vessel. And so the connection is not only up to each other in space, in the bodies, but connection to the ground, connection to the earth, connection to, you know, maybe higher powers, connection to ancestors, connection to, and that relationship. So I think in a way, choreography is embodied relationship to fill in the blank.
Christy Bolingbroke: If choreography is an embodied relationship to fill in the blank, then you are also musicians.
[Yes. Mm-hmm].
Right? Because of your movement forms…
[Mm-hmm].
…that also result in music [Mm-hmm]. And so there's something beautiful, as you were talking to Ariel, that I was thinking about Souls. There is such individuality. You're not asked to try and create a form or technique that then is blurring the lines, but it is complimenting, almost like a movement symphony. [Souls of Duende: Mm-hmm] or orchestra that you've developed. So how would you describe your choreographic relationship to sound?
Arielle Rosales: We as percussive dancers, like you said, we are musicians. And even being here in this residency this week, we have our band musicians with us. And there's a constant negotiation between are we responding to our band, are we responding to each other? Is it all of the above? Melanie George, our dramaturg offered something so beautiful about do we have to be in harmony at all times or can it be in juxtaposition? Juxtaposition doesn't have to equate to conflict. We sometimes adopt each other's sounds and then we'll reflect back to the roots.
My style of Flamenco, in the context of Souls involves a lot of other sounds because they bring that out of me [Bolingbroke: Mm-hmm]. So, for example, when we warm up, we, we very rarely warm up in traditional musical styles. We often put a House track on or or, or a pop song or so, hip hop, something that we all come back to that actually has nothing, or not, I wanna say nothing but isn't rooted in the, the style or the tradition of Flamenco or Kathak or Tap. But that's where we as Amanda, Brinda, Ariel, find each other. And there's a lot of that.
And so our musicians too, when they bring in, uh, Haitian Petwo, a rhythm or a Jamaican, you know, reggae rhythm and these other sounds that then we play with the, literally the way that I dance is different. And even the way that I've moved, like I, we, like Bienda and I in Flamenco and Kathak, we would, we, you know, you shoulders down, lift it up, there's a whole posture. But then when we jam together in these different contexts, like our bodies start moving in different ways that we never typically do in the context of our own style.
Christy Bolingbroke: I think one of the sort of misconceptions sometimes from like really young choreographers is that they think like, oh, I just have to like unlock the dance that's in that piece of music.
Soles of Duende: Mm-hmm.
Christy Bolingbroke: But how you described it is so much more multifaceted, multi-layered, and they an additional dialogue [Mm-hmm] between the body and the music too, and honoring all the, what I think I is, I know is also important to Souls is the multifacetedness of who you are as people.
Brinda Guha: We're in this group that is tasked with being together, first of all. Secondly, making music together. You know, creating stories together, bringing ourselves to it. But we also carry a responsibility to not be the all encompassing representation of our form, but to be clear representations of the lineage. We know how we're showing up and we're choosing that. Right? And so I'm really proud of that fact. And, and it's, it's heavy sometimes. So you have to kind of like figure out in terms of your question, what is our choreographic relationship to making music together?
It's also what Ariel said about us meeting on the floor with House music or meeting on the floor with nineties music 'cause we're all nineties babies. It's, it's really about trusting that maybe my pedagogy that was given to me was, did not encompass the daughter of immigrants growing up in the nineties after the Immigration Act, and my parents came here in the sixties, like maybe it didn't have anything to do with Lucknow Gharana and Jaipur Gharana of Kathak, maybe it just had to do with the Brinda growing up in Jersey with Bengali parents. You know what I mean? And, bringing that and feeling with ghungroos on that I can do that and not feel guilty that I am not putting forth Guru Bela Arnab’s pedagogy or anyone's repertoire or anyone's technique. But in that moment, Brinda, the practitioner of those lineages, is here as a decision that she made, right?
There's, um, a permission that we continuously give ourselves in order to show up in the, in the group, not to combat that responsibility, but to go hand in hand with it, right? I understand the stakes. We all understand the stakes, and I think there is freedom in that because we know that we are not the sole representative of our form. We are part of the communities that make up the form, and so this is a part of it.
Amanda Castro: So Brinda and Ariel have been okay. 15 years now, right?
Brinda Guha: 7,000 years [Everyone laughs]. We've known each other for 7,000 years.
Amanda Castro: They've known each other for 7,015 years. They met working in New York City, doing collaborations together and working together. Brinda was working at Broadway Dance Center, ISVP and educational programming [Guha: Mm-hmm]. Um, and Ariel was teaching mm-hmm. All over New York City. She's an OG, been around a long time, everybody.
Um, and they were, they were granted an opportunity to show a piece of work at Aiden's show at Dixon Place. They were talking about doing a collaboration, and they said that they needed to find another sound. Now, I did not know them at this time. Brinda Guha came to “Run the Night.” “Run the Night,” it was a big commercial dance competition that Jared Grimes put on. I was currently transitioning out of Urban Bush Women. I recently had a meeting with Jawole. Jawole Jo Willa Zollar, what's up? The OG. Um, I had a meeting with her as we just finished our piece Walking With Train. Uh, we premiered at BAM, we toured it everywhere and it just, of course it changed my life because it was inve, it was an investigation of his music and his work.
Um, and I was tap dancing in it. And, but without shoes on. Tap dance influenced so much of my trajectory in that piece, that evening length work. Um, and after being in it for years, in the investigation of it, I said, Jawole, I need to put my shoes on now. Um, and it, and so and so, I was transitioning out of the company. Now, back to “Run the Night”, back to “Run the Night” dance competition. I took a risk and I said, okay. I submitted one minute before the deadline and I said, I'm gonna do a solo. I choreographed a piece to Vivaldi's. What is it? Uh, Four Seasons.
Soles of Duende: Four Seasons.
Amanda Castro: I, I should know it. I did it. Um. It was so long ago. Um, I choreographed a solo 'cause I don't know why that song spoke to me and I did a full Tap solo.
Brinda Guha: Pause. Pause. Listeners, listen to me right now. Okay. I'm watching this girl come out with a bomber jacket, door knockers, a bold red lip, curls popping, plywood.
Amanda Castro: I just needed to do that little solo quick. That's it.
Brinda Guha: And then Vivaldi turns on…
Arielle Rosales: …and give the context of “Run the Night.” What type of dance?
Brinda Guha: Yeah, it's commercial dance. It's like…
Arielle Rosales: …large pieces.
Brinda Guha: Oh, Busta Rhymes was right before that. Busta Rhymes was right before that. And I was like, what is going on though right now?
Amanda Castro: Right, right, right.
Brinda Guha: And what happened at the end of that night, Amanda?
Amanda Castro: I…
Brinda Guha: What happened? Say it.
Amanda Castro: I'm shrinking in my chair.
Brinda Guha: What happened?
Amanda Castro: Um, okay, so we do the competition. I end up winning the competition.
Brinda Guha: That's right. That's right. She wins the competition.
Amanda Castro: I start crying. I'm crying. I can't believe it. It was a huge shift. It was a huge shift outta this company mentality. Coming straight out of college, doing all these things. And then there's this woman, this woman is following me outta the building and she's like, hello, my name is Brinda. I'm gonna send you a message on Facebook.
Facebook Messenger. Remember back in the day, that was very popular [Guha: It was hot]. It was very popular for Facebook Messenger. So I get all these messages. Hey, I'm working with my friend on the show. I would really think you would be a great addition to this. You would be a great sound. And it just felt kismet, like, this is what I need to be doing right now. I just made, you know, a beautiful new area of space to try and do this thing to, you know, figure out what my instrument, what my relationship is with my instrument. And we said, I said yes to doing The Aiden show. With Brinda and Ariel our first time, the first time that we met was doing a photo shoot on the rooftop of Ooh, on the rooftop of BDC. You don't tell nobody else.
Soles of Duende: Sorry. Sorry, Diane. Um, sorry, Diane. Sorry.
Amanda Castro: Um, and it was the first time I met Ariel, and if you scroll back to the beginning of our time on Facebook, those photos are still there. And in those photos, it looks like we've known each other for those 15 years.
Arielle Rosales: Forever.
Brinda Guha: 7015 years.
Amanda Castro: 7015 years.
Arielle Rosales: The arms wrapped around cheek to cheek, da da. So nice to meet you. Ah like…
Christy Bolingbroke: The groundedness that you talk about that shows up in that photo, it also shows up in your work. 'cause it feels like you have been performing together and in some sort of dialogue together forever [Soles of Duende: Mm-hmm]. You know, like, and that history. And I remember talking about that the first time our program manager, Nikisha Moore Dunson, got to see your work at an APAP showcase [Soles of Duende: Mm-hmm]. And it was like, this felt, it felt like it was in dialogue with the ancestors. It felt like it was deeply rooted, 600 feet underground as well as somehow looking forward [Soles of Duende: Mm-hmm]. Um, how did you then identify the musicians?
Brinda Guha: Part of our residency at Dixon Place that we got a year long shout out to Ellie and Rob and the whole team [Soles of Duende: Yeah]. It was a year-long residency. It was really unique actually. Mm-hmm. We don't talk about this enough [Mm-hmm]. Um, we had monthly soul sessions in this lounge upstairs where people can come and get a drink and we could just jam and that was part of the residency rehearsal space in the theater. And then we had a six show run in December of 2017, 18, maybe 18 [18]. And we did our very first iteration of Can We Dance Here?
For that process, we invited percussionist, Frank Malloy IV, um, DJ Jada Lorraine, and, uh, violinist, Anjana Swaminathan. And we identified these sounds 'cause at the time, the version of Can We Dance Here? was speaking to portions of past, present, and future that was important for us to encapsulate in, in the soundscape without it being a direct correlation to the forms, traditional music. So we wanted something that was, you know, the, the cousin, right? [Mm-hmm]. But not necessarily the thing. Mm-hmm. Um, and so we identified a couple of, you know, really just wonderful collaborators and formed a great relationship with them, and they, um, worked with us for a while.
Then we were gifted a residency from Gibney Dance Center in 2020. The fun year of 2020 [Mm-hmm]. And at that time, um, some of our other musicians had moved, moved on with their, with their careers. [Mm-hmm]. And, and so we identified, uh, Ryan Stanbury, um, on trumpet and Okai Musik, o uh, Ariel, and I know Okai from a million, a million years ago, 8,000 years ago [Mm-hmm]. And, um. Who was the third one? Uh, and then Trina. Trina.
Amanda Castro: Trina.
Brinda Guha: Right. Trina Basu. Uh, dear, dear, amazing representative of Carnatic music [Mm-hmm] in the Indian, uh, music scene. And so we started rehearsals together because we knew we wanted to revamp the show. We knew we had more stories to tell. We knew we had more structure, and then COVID, and so everything was, everything was paused.
Um, fast forward 2022, uh, Nigel Campbell [Mm-hmm. Was our curator, right? [Mm-hmm. Yeah]. Nigel Campbell was like, all right, you wanna continue? You wanna keep going? We were like, that was two years ago. Okay. Um, and so we remained in process through those, through those two years, but it was, it was different [Mm-hmm]. We were all, you know, we were part of the global story of figuring out what we were gonna do next.
Finally, we, uh, Ryan was down to, to return, so was Okai. Trina had other projects, uh, to continue, and we invited Raaginder Momi, who is a wonderful violinist and a star in his own right. Um, and we redid, Can We Dance Here? in 2022 and the Spotlight Series at Gibney, and it was a big hit. [Yeah]. And it was like a really, and by big hit, I don't just mean popular. It was definitely popular. We got a New York Times critics pick. It was like a big moment in our career, for sure. But it was really lively and it was really like, oh, these are the stories we're telling when we stop asking permission [Mm]. And there was a lot of soul music in that one. I think something about the violin spoke to me in a way that Carnatic music violin is, is common in Carnatic music, but not all the time in Hindustani classical music.
So I got to live out something really exciting there. And, and then Ryan and Okai really, um, enveloped from there. And then, was it the same summer or the following summer? [I think it was…] Same summer, a couple weeks later, we were invited to perform at Little Island and Raaginder went on a world tour.
Arielle Rosales: Mm-hmm.
Brinda Guha: And so Ryan was like, I know a guy. And, um, introduced to us Andrew AJ Jagannath, who is a mixed race, Indian American, electric guitarist and just sound engineer and just really overall genius.
Arielle Rosales: Yeah. Yeah.
Brinda Guha: And what he did was he transcribed all of Raaginder’s like main, original, melodic [Mm-hmm kind of arcs in the show. Um, not all of them, but like some of the main ones, and he transcribed it to guitar. And when Ryan told us we were like. Okay. That's different. All right. Like an electric. Okay.
Arielle Rosales: You know, we were, we were nervous. We were like, we don't know what to expect [Guha: Yeah]. Especially with your solo and Can We Dance Here? [Guha: Yeah] there was a lot of violin specific things that Raaginder had brought to the table. I'll never forget that rehearsal.
Brinda Guha: Ooh.
Arielle Rosales: There was one rehearsal that we were, uh, hearing for the first time, Brinda’s solo, transcribed to guitar.
Brinda Guha: Uhhuh, Uhhuh.
Arielle Rosales: And we all just looked at each other like, oh, okay. Got it.
Brinda Guha: Yeah. Done. Thank you.
Arielle Rosales: Right. Correct.
Brinda Guha: Yeah. It was like, I remember Raaginder was like, I'm gonna butcher this, but Raaginder was like, sang something to me and it was a translate. It was a, a translation, a couple of my mom's compositions are in my solo, and I, I told the rhythmic composition to Raaginder. He turned it into this music. And then when we gave it to AJ, AJ added like a, a depth to it that actually felt like my mom and I were meeting in the bol, in the composition. [Mm-hmm]. It, you know, as opposed to Raaginder, who was like, really honoring my mom's work. Right. The, like, AJ was like, gave it to me. [Mm-hmm]. You know? [Mm-hmm]. Um, and we got to kind of share that. Anyway, it was amazing. And we were like, this group is special [Mm-hmm]. And it, and it stuck. And, and since then we have been working together and diligently.
Christy Bolingbroke: I love hearing the story. It's not just the timeline of that, but in how you tell it, it reveals how the individual performer or collaborator also brings so much can you articulate, if you're open to, how they'll also make it their own [Mm-hmm] what is it that Souls really values in a collaborator?
Arielle Rosales: So a couple of things. First off, an observation that also answers that question. I think for the three musicians we currently have, AJ, Okai and, and Ryan. Ryan, for example, is a drummer and a dancer and is married to a Tap dancer. So he there, there's a lot there that he understands. Okai as well, plays Bomba, is an MC, like multi, multifaceted. AJ, he produces, he plays multiple instruments, although guitar is his primary instrument. Um, and the way that he hears music is, is so multifaceted and layered.
And I think that that's a value, like whether a dancer, a musician. Any collaborator, including our understudies [Mm-hmm]. We have Xianix Barrera, whose my Flamenca understudy. Um, we have Barkha Patel, who's Brinda understudy, and we have, um, OGs, [Asha] Asha DaHomie Griffith [Mm-hmm] um, whose Amanda's Tap dance, uh, understudy. And those three women also very versatile, uh, in their own different, Xianix is half Puerto Rican, half Dominican from the Heights. So she also has that, you know, flavor that we understand as New Yorkers. Uh, same thing with Barkha from Queens. And she, although rooted in traditional Katgak is very contemporary and experimental, um, and brings in other classical Indian styles, Asha is not only a phenomenal Tap dancer. She is also an MC. She, um, writes music. Um, she spits bars like, um…
Amanda Castro: Installation work she does.
Arielle Rosales: Right? And when they met and when we worked together, there's an the same way that we just like hit it off. They fit that. I'll never forget Barkha andXianix just like talking shop in telling stories and we're just witnessing them being themselves. But, and it's different, but it has that same familiar ener, energy, [Mm-hmm]. So I think versatility, not just in style, but in life experience, is important. Uh, connection to New York City is important. Connection to time period, although we do have a couple of generations, but we're pretty much in the same realm of generation. And being able to speak multiple languages [Mm-hmm]. You know, literally and figuratively.
Amanda Castro: There's, there's like a through line here. That through line word is curiosity. What makes a good collaborator is the curiosity of who you are when you are with these people [Hmm]. Um, uh, the people in the company. That's something we've been talking about with Melanie George. Right? We're talking about our new work, The Kitchen, and we're currently building that right now. And what does it mean to be in the kitchen? Who is there? Who was invited, who wasn't invited? Who are you when the uninvited people come into your house? And I think knowing and investigating who that person is when you are surrounded by people who don't speak your language, who are you then? I feel like for me, what I ever think in dance, not just in Tap dance, but in general, it's, it's performers, it's artists who are curious about what else is there.
Christy Bolingbroke: I, I'm curious in terms of how you would describe yourself or work. Do you identify with the term virtuosic?
Brinda Guha: Ooh, I got lots of feelings about that.
Arielle Rosales: You should see Amanda's face right now. Look, I dunno, I dunno. It's a little sus, a little suss.
Brinda Guha: Virtuosity is complicated because, in South Asian culture, virtuosity is tied to class and caste. And as a caste-privileged person, it's hard for me to embrace that word. Because it's like a knife, you know, you can like use a knife to cut an apple or you could stab someone with it.
You know, like, it's like a, it's like a tool and how you use the tool is [Mm-hmm] is wild. And virtuosity, um, was used as a tool to separate people to create hierarchy and to change the aesthetic of our form toward, towards, um, colonial, um, um, aesthetics, whiteness, and, um, bodies devoid of, uh, curvature, womanhood, and femininity [Laughs] You know, like virtuosity was used to be like to sterilize dance [Mm-hmm]. And, in a culture that has so many kinds of people, it's really, really hard to reclaim that word. And so, however, I would like to dream that the word really means staying curious [Mm-hmm]. And staying open to the possibility and always leveling up in that regard.
Um, and I think that, that, I think that I could embrace it more if it was a more equitable playing ground. If classical dance was not um, appropriating from folk culture, lighter-skinned South Asians did not steal the forms of darker-skinned South Asians. Um, I think I would really love the word virtuosic because I think it's important and I wonder if there's another word, that can help talk about that curiosity and can help move us towards a deeper understanding of the politics of dance, especially for something so old.
Amanda Castro: I feel like for me, I don't know. It's not necess, necessarily. Like look at them doing the hardest shit [Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm]. It's being curious of like, I haven't touched this part of the tree yet. I've been on these three branches and I've been here and the view is nice here [Mm-hmm]. But what does it look like if I climb a little bit higher? [Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm]. So I feel like that's a ginormous common thread in Soul's work. And I think. I, I am, I have gratitude for people who are, who gravitate towards us, because then that means they're curious too with us [Mm]. Because we still have a lot of questions [Yeah]. We're still asking a lot of questions. Talking about if we're, you know, we always talk about how, you know, how are we, how are we adding our patch to the quilt of our forms with this company? I keep saying that some repeat these last two months, but it's so true, right?
Like. You know, I'm a Puerto Rican girl with a dad who was a drummer. Like, how, what is my, what is my entryway thinking about his legacy and what he did, and I'm here right now with these two women having a conversation looking forward. You know, we're curious about how do we continue to hold hands and do that and go forward when everything is on fire [Hmm]. You know, going back to the other question of choreography, what is it? It's, it's storytelling. While we're holding hands right now, being in the kitchen, trying to make some rice. You know, giving people a moment to be like, we are here together [Mm-hmm]. Right? [Mm-hmm]. You know, and I think that virtuosity is the curiosity of asking themselves the question and knowing that you don't have the answer [Mm-hmm]. You know, I think that's something I also see as virtuosity. Somebody who straight up is like, I ain't got it, but I got this right now.
Brinda Guha: I think it's the practice. I think it's us trying stuff, not being very good at it, and then trying it again and finding something really, really magical. And then being in a period of rehearsal to solidify. And, and not even solidify to refine the thing that we made because we all have the skill to do it. You know, I think that that level up together work is pretty virtuousic, like if I was gonna reclaim the word.
Arielle Rosales: I'm a big fan of context and I think that everything that we are playing with and experimenting with is within context to each other and to something. There's the obvious Flamenco in context of Tap and Kathak. Beyond that, you know, what does flamenco look like in a Kathak bol? What does Flamenco sound like and feel like swung? which we never do. It's giving permission to play, giving permission to, I, I, I hesitate with the term of breaking rules, 'cause yes, that is part of it [Mm-hmm]. But it's with done with so much intention and research and thought so that it can be done. And also too, in this residency, lots of, um, things are coming to mind of like, it's not always rule breaking. It's in conversation with each other [Hmm]. And I think we can use that terminology out of place. Not that that's not being done 'cause it is being done, but sometimes it's actually us do coexisting within the, within the quote unquote rules or tradition of our forms. And that in and of itself gives so much information to us as dancers, as humans, and, um it's liberating too, because it's, this is where it's like so much beyond the thesis of Flamenco, Kathak, Tap [Mm-hmm Mm-hmm]. And that's why Souls of Duende is not that alone.
Um, and it, it very quickly turned away from that. Maybe like our first Aiden show was like [Mm-hmm] about that Um, but, it has been done before this type of collaboration, Flamenco and Kathak, has a very rich history. Um [Mm-hmm]. Kathak and Tap. Mm-hmm. Yes. Mm-hmm. I think what's what makes us different again, is bringing the, the, the human part of it, the personhood, the, the life experience, and no one can take that away. So anytime I have like, or any of us have like that imposter syndrome of like, oh, you know, such so and so Flamenco dancer could do this more, faster, quicker. Da, da da. It's not about that. And equally so, like, again, with the versatility we have as artists and as human beings, no one can be us. You know, no one has the reference to the kitchen, all the ingredients that make up who I am, who she is, who she is. Um, and living in that is a liberating, uh, not only as individually like in our own bodies, but I think liberating as an example of the potential of what we can do.
It's interesting because within the past nine years of us doing this, I've seen a shift from the Flamenco community, a couple of people in particular that started off feeling one type of way about what we do. And now not only praising us, but I see them going off and doing their thing and it's like, yes, give yourself permission to to be you within the form and find yourself there as opposed to being solely a representative of the form.
Christy Bolingbroke: What piece of advice have you been given [Mm-hmm] that kind of keeps you grounded or would you like to offer to other artists out there?
Amanda Castro: This fall, I had the opportunity to do West Side Story again and play Anita. Um, and what a glorious time it was. And on our last performance, we got to meet George Chakiris, who is the original Bernardo in the film that we all know and love purple dresses everywhere. Um, and he came to see our show. I watched him growing up and, you know, dancers back in the day. You did the film and you weren't credited. Everybody knows what you look like, but you weren't in the credits, you weren't the star. Um, and he was so generous with his time, and he comes silver-haired man, came in with his nice suit, walked up slow, and said, wow, everybody, wow. Um. and I, I asked him the question and it, it, it, it changed me. 'cause I said, you are 93 years old and you're still coming to see art. You're still coming out to the theater. You're still supporting dance. I'm like, what would you tell aspiring people and aspiring artists?
And he said, you know, you have feelings, but follow your gut. Follow your gut. And I think that's specifically, of course, I feel like that's specifically for, for, for performers 'cause we were all performing in the show. We didn't choreograph that show. Um, but I think at that moment, 'cause I knew the show was ending, getting ready to hop back into Soul's land, um, and our world that we live in, that's very different. That's very different from, you know, hopping into a musical theater show. Um, and. Not having the, not having the gift of time. Right? Those shows are usually very quick. You have two weeks to learn something and make it yours and, and you're having little mini heart attacks all the time. It's great. Um, but you know, what's beautiful about Souls is that we are a part of it and we make this, you know, we make this circle that we live in.
And I still think about that, like how are, how are we following our gut? Because the atmosphere of being in a nonprofit dance company is very different than if you're getting hired for a musical theater company. And we're also not talking about that. That, uh, medium of where resources are and as if we're not all dancing in different places, um, and how that can be spread out into the world, um, and those resources to be spread out into the world, into our ecosystem. Because another, you know, it's, I offer that as a place of investigation. But I think the offering, the offering I would give is to follow your gut and know and surround yourself with people who are also following. Their gut and are being honest with you. Two women sitting next to me are honest with me, and if it's not with their words, it's with their eyebrows [Everyone laughs]. Because they're very loud. Because it's very loud.
Brinda Guha: We got the same eyebrow threader from 7,000 years ago.
Amanda Castro: Yeah.
Brinda Guha: That's why.
Amanda Castro: Um, and, and it is something, and what I will say. Even in the disagreement. And what the gut feeling is, is a form of love because somebody is telling you something different than what you think you know, to challenge you and make sure that you really wanna stand 10 toes down in what you're feeling. Um, and I think is building your unit. I always talk about a unit with him. My dad would always say that he would, he would say, where's your unit? What? Who's going to, you know, my unit was my parents and my sister, and he's like, as long as my unit is good, literally anything can happen. So I feel like Souls is a unit with our band and just as, as the world is burning and we move forward, just know who your unit is and follow your good.
Arielle Rosales: Two things we've talked about recently. Social media has changed how folks choreograph and move.
Speaker 2: Mm-hmm.
Arielle Rosales: And I would encourage young folks to think bigger than your phone screen, take up space. Travel, be big, try, be bold, be daring. Don't do the what everyone else is doing or do it for fun, do what you wanna do. But when you're really creating work, think outside of TikTok Box land.
Number two, another thing we talked about this week is encouraging folks to see shows [Mm-hmm]. See people's work [Mm-hmm]. Everything from on the big stage to the works in progress. 20 minute we, because like that's how all these things start. Um, and often there's a lot more to learn in those parts of the process. Um, see it when it's messy. See it when they're trying things out [ Mm-hmm]. And, and then think about it and sit with it and marinate with it and use it as fodder. This, there's, you know what, here in Akron as we learn, there's plenty of things to see here [Mm-hmm]. Of course. Folks in the New York City, tri-state area, endless stuff.
And the beautiful thing of, of challenging time, such as our political climate right now, is there is an artistic renaissance of need, of people are like, no, we're gonna create. We're gonna bounce back and create, we're here[Mm-hmm]. So support, do, do your version of it and also support others that are doing it. Not just online. Online is a part of our system now, and that's cool, but also live [Mm-hmm]. Um, and then my answer to the question is authenticity. I think authenticity is most important and when you're a young person, And even not even a young person, just as, as, as people, as people being authentically yourself. We're changing. We're ever-changing. So if who you are and what you, honestly want to express today in 2025 may be different in 2028, may be different, 2033 and whatever else, be that fully in that moment and then give grace that it will change, can change, will change. It doesn't make you a hypocrite to be like, this is who I was at that time.
Right. That's um, and then think about any artist of any medium, you have a work of art and you see the eras, you know, we talk about, oh, I'm in my such and such era like that, it. There's a reference there too. Be, be in your whatever era. Commit to that. Yeah. And explore that. And then go, you know what, I'm over that. Okay. I'm gonna go over here [Right]. Um, but authenticity and in order to find your authenticity, being grounded and aligned, I think is super important. Grounded in, in, in both, literally and figuratively [Mm-hmm]. Grounded in your body. Aligned in your body. You can do chakra work or whatever. And also figuratively, like aligned, like you said, your unit, , aligned with the people you're around, your community, aligned with the projects you take on, aligned with how you show up for yourselves and for others in space.
Especially when nowadays people are wearing so many different hats. There's a lot of like hyphenated people, like with multiple, you know, things that they do. It's easiest when all those things are in alignment. So if you find whatever your value system is or whatever the through line is, that all the things can make sense. You can do all the things, all of a sudden, you know, but when you're not aligned and you have all these things, it's like, that's when it's like, oh, I'm, I'm burnt out. I don't know why you're scattered. You're, you're, you have pieces of yourself everywhere.
Brinda Guha: I agree with everything that Amanda and Ariel are saying. I think it's important. I wish I had all that advice, uh, growing up. Um, I think I'll, I'll stick to what I know best, which is practical, practical things that I think are useful, such as get your Google Drive organized [Yes, yes]. Listen, I'm not even kidding. I'm literally not even kidding.
Amanda Castro: She means that with her whole chest, y'all.
Brinda Guha: I do, I do. Um, get your Google calendar sorted. If you're not into Google, there's alternatives. Its fine. I do think getting organized is really important. I think the reason I say that is not because it's in my best interest. The reason I say getting organized is important is because we want to diminish the labor that it takes to justify our work. And we wanna just be able to deliver it and have the freedom to do all the other things that Ariel and Amanda named. And what happens is, as dance makers, we are constantly our own managers, agents, advocates, administrators, babysitters, our own partners, our own, we are taking care of far more than our job title. And there are ways to streamline and there are ways to take our ego out of streamlining it. And to leave the scarcity model of I gotta do everything myself. 'cause I gotta prove myself. I don't think it is serving us. I'm so not joking when I say get your administration in order.
And I think NCC Akron is a really, really, really good hub and example that models the strength that it's required in your creative administration program as well as what it took for me to show up and do your, uh, six-episode podcast last year. Yeah. And you know, we talked about our grandmothers, but we really organized ourselves so that we could talk about our grandmothers, you know, and it was, it was, it's important. And I think dance makers right now, what's happening is it's like I'm an artist. I don't do that stuff. And it's like, you definitely do that stuff. You do that stuff for your mom, you do that stuff for your little sister, you do that stuff for your friends. You know, you have to do it for your career. You have to do it for yourself. I don't want it to feel so separate. I want it to feel. You know, I wanna work smart, not hard. I don't wanna belabor things that are already special and already exist.
And so my advice to dance makers is to get super clear. To get super organized. And when you can do some of that baseline work, you can evolve with, with a sense of ease and freedom that doesn't require a transition period through shame and out of other stuff that you did before, right? Like you can at least document and present every version of yourself so that you can actually be free and, and step into a new version of yourself. And so I think it's really important to get really, really organized and not wait to do that. And I'll also just add one last thing to that is that if we can get organized about both our work and our process, but also the things that help us talk about our work and our process, we can also become advocates from within the field, right? [Mm-hmm] As opposed to waiting for industry to come to us when industry has not proven that they care about us necessarily [Mm-hmm] So we have to be our own advocates. But where are we gonna get that energy if we're so bogged down? 'cause we have to write our resume. You know what I mean? So it's like if we can do some of that work now and get, get it sorted, we can have the energy to kind of like move some things. I don't think we're endless vessels. I think we're finite. I think we get tired. I think that's what makes us human and so I want us to stay as energized as possible.
Jennifer Edwards: Inside the Dancer’s Studio Conversation Series is produced by NCCAkron supported in part by Audio-Technica, a global audio manufacturer with U.S. headquarters in Northeast Ohio.' Our podcast program is produced by Lisa Niedermeyer of Handmade Future Studio. Rahsaan Cruz is our audio engineer, with transcription by Arushi Singh, theme music by Floco Torres, and cover art by Micah Kraus. Special thanks to Laura Ellacott, Nakiasha Moore-Dunson, Dante Fields, Jen Garlando, and Mariclare Hulbert. To learn more about NCCAkron, please visit us online at nccakron.org. And follow us on Instagram or Facebook at NCCAkron. We hope you enjoyed this episode, and we encourage you to subscribe on your favorite podcast streaming platform by searching for Inside the Dancer’s Studio. Thanks for listening and stay curious.